RWC: AUS v ENG (Twickenham): POOL A; 6am (AEDT) Sunday 4 October

[TSR]

So your game plan would be to go wide and for all out attack against England?

Interesting, we would then select who outside him - how would you pick a side?

Personally, I see the game being a grinding dock yard brawl.

I see England wanting to invest heavily in slowing our ball, while playing stop/start rugby, wanting to play from set piece to set piece and rushing big time in the backs.

So those "opportunities" to go wide to be off slow, back foot ball most of the time and deep in our own territory.

So your solution is we don't even try????

Look - I figure Foley will keep his spot, but I won't be complaining if we pick Cooper & Mitchell and actually have a crack.

 

[Braveheart81]

We all know what you think when it comes to QC (Quade Cooper), BH

I like Quade. He's an exciting player to watch.

I just don't think he's going to be picked to start against England and my modus operandi isn't to assume that he's destined to oust Foley as soon as he plays one really good game.

The evidence suggests otherwise.

 

[BDA]

Guys, guys, guys. let's stop with the "Quade must play" arguments.

I've always been a big supporter of Quade, and do believe that he is better than Foley at his best, but he's just not going to be selected for this game, nor should he.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm quite sure he's been sin binned in the last 3 tests he's played in. That's not something we can afford on Sunday.

His form this test season just hasn't been that great. it's been more than a month since he played in a high pressure game. He had a decent game against Uruguay but he's left his run too late. Cheika won't be selecting him, and on balance you'd have to say that's the right call.

I think most of us have a fairly good idea as to what the team will look like. There's really only a handful of question marks. I'd expect we'll start with Foley/Giteau and finish with To'omua/Giteau.

Not sure which of Phipps/Genia will start. I'm ok with either.

The only real question mark for me is the left wing spot. I'm concerned that we are lacking in attacking ability out wide. Drew Mitchell I thought looked dangerous last night. Yes he had a few poor touches to start the game, but he was one of the Wallabies best as the game wore on. He went looking for work, and made a number of line-breaks. He also contributed to the kicking responsibilities. He might be a better option than Horne. I don't think we'd lose a hell of a lot in terms of defence but we gain in other areas. However, I think Horne plays an important role in Cheika's game plan by regularly defending in the 10/12 channel. He makes a good impact there too. So I'm not sure we'll see any changes.

Looking at the likely line up the Wallabies MUST win the breakdown if they're going to take the game. We should be able to do that. We'll be strong defensively, but we need to trust our systems. Our discipline at the breakdown needs to be much better. If we give away cheap kickable penalties we'll be strangled out of this game.

The scrum is a concern too. Not because I don't rate our scrum (which is probably the best it's ever been), I just don't trust Poite or the English. The French ref last night blew several penalties against the Wallabies at the scrum despite the fact that they clearly had complete dominance from start to finish. In the second half they deployed some tricks on turning the scrum and the ref gave them the benefits of the doubt. I have no faith that we'll get a fair go on Sunday.

 

[Lee Enfield]

So your game plan would be to go wide and for all out attack against England?

Interesting, we would then select who outside him - how would you pick a side?

Personally, I see the game being a grinding dock yard brawl.

I see England wanting to invest heavily in slowing our ball, while playing stop/start rugby, wanting to play from set piece to set piece and rushing big time in the backs.

So those "opportunities" to go wide to be off slow, back foot ball most of the time and deep in our own territory.

It will be grinding, however opportunities will be presented to go wide and when they are presented we need to be able to take advantage of them and Foley can't do that. If it is tight, Foley is a worse tactical kicker than Cooper. I would rather Cooper and Giteau for tactical kicking and attack and rely on Giteau for the goal kicking, then picking Foley cause he is a slightly better goal kicker. Foley is more limited with less upside than Cooper, and lets be honest Foley has made as many errors as Cooper this season, but he is judged by different standards.

 

[jollyswagman]

Some interesting comments. It seems GAGR would have half the number of comments if not for Quade Cooper.

My two cents worth - I actually thought Quade showed more than enough to show he is a much better pick than Foley around the field. I confess to being a Quade fan,..........

The fact that you have to "confess" to be a fan of a particular player is frankly bloody sad, TSR.

 

[Braveheart81]

It will be grinding, however opportunities will be presented to go wide and when they are presented we need to be able to take advantage of them and Foley can't do that. If it is tight, Foley is a worse tactical kicker than Cooper. I would rather Cooper and Giteau for tactical kicking and attack and rely on Giteau for the goal kicking, then picking Foley cause he is a slightly better goal kicker. Foley is more limited with less upside than Cooper, and lets be honest Foley has made as many errors as Cooper this season, but he is judged by different standards.

Are you sure you're not the one judging him by different standards?

A lot of people wanting Quade to start seem to run with the premise of what he might possibly produce rather than what is likely.

 

[fatprop]

So your solution is we don't even try????

Ahh, no, but the game plan I would be happier to see is about the team working hard, getting all the details right and leveraging the opportunities that come our way by doing the simple catch and passes right rather than relying on someone to throw a money ball.

 

[jollyswagman]

I liked what I saw from Mitchell despite a rough start to the game for him. Shades of Bryan Habana in him and out of all of the Wallaby outside backs he is the closest to a real finisher IMO. You get the sense from him that he knows exactly where the try line is and is not afraid to pin his ears back and gun it for the line.I appreciate that is won't happen but if there were a few more "less critical games" available I would love to see AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) moved in a spot and Mitchell outside him.....and just to discredit my whole post I will say that I would love to see a backline of Genia, Cooper, Giteau, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Mitchel, Speight & Folau, with Beale and To'omua on the bench.

 

[Lindommer]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) selected out of his recent test position, Mitchell painfully under-done, Speight looking under his bed (and everywhere else) for his 2014 Super form. How many minutes do you want from Cooper before he cops a yellow? Glad you're not an Oz selector, jsm.

To be fair that backline would probably go well against Namibia, and Romania.

 

[Marcelo]

My team:

1 Sio
2 Moore (c)
3 Kepu
4 Simmons
5 Douglas
6 Fardy
7 Hooper
8 Pocock
9 Phipps
10 Foley
11 Mitchell
12 To'omua
13 Kuridrani
14 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15 Folau

16 TPN
17 Slipper
18 Holmes
19 Mumm
20 McCalman
21 Genia
22 Giteau
23 Beale

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Not only are the Soap Dodgers cheating at Scrum Time but it seems that there are allegations of spying on Wallabies training.

Both Marler and Vunipola can't pack or push straight and haven't done so for a long time. What are the referees doing about that? There is very limited use of the Spider cams in matches that the Soap Dodgers have been involved in. Wonder why?

Andrew Blades once called Tony Woodcock "The Myth". With that title gone, Joe Marler must be "The Illusion", Mako Vunipola must be "The Fable" and The English Scrum must be "The Delusion".

Anyone know where we can get a version of this in white with a Red Rose on it?

Here's hoping that they mirror the performance of their Cricket team and exit the World Cup at Pool Stage with all the other minnows.

ABE.

 

[Mr Doug]

Much has been said about our scrum verses theirs. How do our backs compare to theirs, re speed, and overall ability, plus how do the "benches" compare?

 

[Lindommer]

After Tangawizi's earlier comment about the different times this match is received in New South Wales and Queensland I've gone back and rechecked it. And the answers I've found are as clear as mud. To confuse matters, please keep in mind daylight saving starts in New South Wales at 3:00am on Sunday morning. The ARU website have this match listed 6:00am Australian Eastern Standard Time, as does the Foxtel online TV guide (broadcast starting at 5:45). However, the onscreen program guide for Foxtel channel 502 has this broadcast starting at 4:45 and finishing at 7:00am. It'd seem some have taken the switch to daylight saving into account and others haven't. If they're correct, that is.

If anyone has a definitive answer on the time it'd be nice to have it up on the thread name.

 

[TSR]

The fact that you have to "confess" to be a fan of a particular player is frankly bloody sad, TSR.

Ha - well, I'm not in therapy yet for it.

I guess I was just trying to acknowledge that I may have a personal bias - it seems that to some on here, you could only promote a player because of a pre-existing bias. I just figured I might as well state mine up front.

Personally I like to think I can still be objective - but then I doubt any of us think our opinions are anything but unbiased, rational analysis based on astute observation (and we wonder why Deans/McKenzie/Chieka/Other posters can't see what is so obvious to us).

 

[Braveheart81]

After Tangawazi's earlier comment about the different times this match is received in New South Wales and Queensland I've gone back and rechecked it. And the answers I've found are as clear as mud. To confuse matters, please keep in mind daylight saving starts in New South Wales at 3:00am on Sunday morning. The ARU website have this match listed 6:00am Australian Eastern Standard Time, as does the Foxtel online TV guide (broadcast starting at 5:45). However, the onscreen program guide for Foxtel channel 502 has this broadcast starting at 4:45 and finishing at 7:00am. It'd seem some have taken the switch to daylight saving into account and others haven't. If they're correct, that is.

If anyone has a definitive answer on the time it'd be nice to have it up on the thread name.

My Foxtel guide is listing it as 5.45am on Sunday morning which I believe is correct.

It's the same 8pm London kick off as the other prime time matches. Prior to daylight saving starting these started at 5am Sydney time.

Should be 6am kickoff in NSW, VIC etc. 5am QLD, 3am WA.

I think daylight saving starts at 2am on Sunday morning meaning that the clock ticks over from 1.59am to 3am.

 

[jollyswagman]

Ha - well, I'm not in therapy yet for it.

I guess I was just trying to acknowledge that I may have a personal bias - it seems that to some on here, you could only promote a player because of a pre-existing bias. I just figured I might as well state mine up front.

Personally I like to think I can still be objective - but then I doubt any of us think our opinions are anything but unbiased, rational analysis based on astute observation (and we wonder why Deans/McKenzie/Chieka/Other posters can't see what is so obvious to us).

I tend to find myself in the exact same boat as you TSR. Unfortunately the relationship / perception of QC (Quade Cooper)'s value to Australian rugby in general I believe has been irreversibly tarnished. Too much has been said over the years regarding his shortcomings on and off the field for him to be able to be the player many off us would like him to be. He remains a very divisive figure among rugby supporters and will most likely be remembered for his failures more than his successes in a "Campese-esque pass in goal" kind of way.

 

[TSR]

Ahh, no, but the game plan I would be happier to see is about the team working hard, getting all the details right and leveraging the opportunities that come our way by doing the simple catch and passes right rather than relying on someone to throw a money ball.

Serious question (ie - not trying to be deliberately antagonistic), do you actually think that will get the job done in the big games.

For mine, this is Chieka's dilemma - the backline seems completely lacking in spark at the moment and his options to fix this are very limited, and have their own flaws. But I don't think we can beat the ABs, and possibly not England or Ireland (or Wales - depending on how bad their injury fall out is) unless we can find some potency.

Kuridrani finding last years form would be a great start.

I don't agree with the line of thinking that we should ignore the importance of goal kicking - which means the only way Quade gets a start is if Giteau is considered to be likely to get at least 75% kicker.
Phipps will speed up the game, but if he has a shocker with his accuracy we'll be worse, not better.
I think bringing Mitchell in may be a good option - but the trade off there is the loss of Horne's outstanding defence.

I just don't think we can win without significant improvement to our attack. I'm not confident we can play in the manner you are suggesting at an intensity to put pressure on the best sides. That means Cheika has to roll the dice somewhere. If we crash and burn as a result, I'd prefer that than we don't fire a shot.

 

[Tangawizi]

Nine initially put out a PDF guide that stated all the times were AEST, but they did up a new one just before the cup started to show the switch to AEDT. They've got it sorted out now but ARU still need to make a few corrections.

 

[jollyswagman]

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) selected out of his recent test position, Mitchell painfully under-done, Speight looking under his bed (and everywhere else) for his 2014 Super form. How many minutes do you want from Cooper before he cops a yellow? Glad you're not an Oz selector, jsm.

To be fair that backline would probably go well against Namibia, and Romania.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) @13 is hardly playing out of position Lindommer. I wouldn't be the only one thinking that is actually his best position and given TK's lacklustre efforts of late we could do worse. My suggestion was tongue in cheek at best.....call it a fantasy backline of sorts, but if all were on top of their game it would be one that very few teams in the world could match. A man can dream if he wants.

I think all three yellows have been pretty bloody harsh. The one against NZ probably to easiest to swallow but the last was bloody joke.

 

[aeneas]

Given the accuracy that the pommy goal kickers work at (seemingly 100%) are the Wobblys going to be able to score enough to win this? Sub question are your kickers accurate enough to kick at 100% in this big a game?

I can't imagine that trying to keep the penalty count down is going to work in your favour.