Wallabies v England, Sat 11th June, 8.00pm, Suncorp Brisbane

[Lorenzo]

We still have to win two games this series to get the Cook Cup as England are the holders. A draw doesn't change that.

It would if there was another draw. We now have to win two. If he had drawn, we would have had to win 1 and drawn the third (at a minimum).

I think they did the right thing anyway. I'd rather win tests than draw them when the lure of a draw is a very marginally easier route to winning the cook cup.

 

[wamberal]

Really? I disagree. I thought it was pretty even, and we found grass frequently - DHP especially. Certainly they didn't pin us down in our own corner or anything.

I don't think it was a factor in the result either way.
.

Disagree. Folau's kick out on the full cost us.

The Dodgers routinely earned more metres from their line kicks.


But the point is, and I have tried to make it several times, is that our kicking options are severely limited, compared to the team we all want to beat, the Darkness.


They always field three players in the three key kicking positions (the two halves, and the full back) who can execute box kicks, line kicks, and the full range of other options, competently and effectively.


That is what we should be striving for. If we had the full range of kicking options we would, by definition, enhance the value and effectiveness of our other strengths.


On occasion we tried ridiculously ambitious long, wide, passes in our 22. The opposition anticipated this, and we were fortunate not to suffer more damage.


Are you really saying that better kicking would not give us advantages that we do not have right now? Oh for the days when the Burkes and the Lathams would routinely peel off 40 metres and more every time they kicked for the line. Oh for an Aaron Smith who can execute an accurate box kick 9 times out of 10.


I could go on.

 

[barbarian]

Do you actually think Australia's kicking game was good?

Foley failed to find touch from a penalty and Folau kicked out on the full from outside the 22, these are simple errors that can't be afforded at Test level.

I didn't say it was good, but I thought it was OK. Yeah there were a few mistakes but generally speaking it was fine. Considering it's not a huge strength of ours, I think to have parity with England was something of an achievement.
.

 

[Viking]

Disagree. Folau's kick out on the full cost us.

The Dodgers routinely earned more metres from their line kicks.


But the point is, and I have tried to make it several times, is that our kicking options are severely limited, compared to the team we all want to beat, the Darkness.


They always field three players in the three key kicking positions (the two halves, and the full back) who can execute box kicks, line kicks, and the full range of other options, competently and effectively.


That is what we should be striving for. If we had the full range of kicking options we would, by definition, enhance the value and effectiveness of our other strengths.


On occasion we tried ridiculously ambitious long, wide, passes in our 22. The opposition anticipated this, and we were fortunate not to suffer more damage.


Are you really saying that better kicking would not give us advantages that we do not have right now? Oh for the days when the Burkes and the Lathams would routinely peel off 40 metres and more every time they kicked for the line. Oh for an Aaron Smith who can execute an accurate box kick 9 times out of 10.


I could go on.

I agree better kickers across the park would give us a huge boost. But I don't think it was a MAJOR factor in the loss. it certainly was a small factor. We should have, and could won that game with poor kickers (the darkness is another story - we need kickers to beat them).

Overall, it was giving away 7 penalties in kicking range that cost us. That is something no international team should be doing.

 

[The torpedo]

I agree better kickers across the park would give us a huge boost. But I don't think it was a MAJOR factor in the loss. it certainly was a small factor. We should have, and could won that game with poor kickers (the darkness is another story - we need kickers to beat them).

Overall, it was giving away 7 penalties in kicking range that cost us. That is something no international team should be doing.

IMO the problem is that our kicking from hand is way too inconsistent (sometimes it is absolutely horrible). Foley tried to gain too many metres from kicks to touch at least twice and I reckon this cost us points. Foley's goalkicking was also poor this week, which probably cost us the game alongside our poor discipline.

 

[HJ Nelson]

Photos from the game here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/100900132@N02/albums/72157669633855425/with/27001064943/

or

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/...73741831.1688336714761462&type=1&l=b44426bf0a
I think this one might be my favourite (with the ones of Pocock and Folau on the front page)

 

[The torpedo]

Mike Brown in that photo:
"Screw rugby, I wanna be a dolphin"

 

[Viking]

IMO the problem is that our kicking from hand is way too inconsistent (sometimes it is absolutely horrible). Foley tried to gain too many metres from kicks to touch at least twice and I reckon this cost us points. Foley's goalkicking was also poor this week, which probably cost us the game alongside our poor discipline.

Actually it is consistent. Consistently poor/average.

Foley has never been reliable with goal-kicks from the sideline, or really anything on an angle more then 35 metres out. We have a history of missing touch-finders - To'omua, White, Cooper all doing this on numerous occasions.

Not sure what the answer is to fix it though.

 

[The torpedo]

Actually it is consistent. Consistently poor/average.

Foley has never been reliable with goal-kicks from the sideline, or really anything on an angle more then 35 metres out. We have a history of missing touch-finders - To'omua, White, Cooper all doing this on numerous occasions.

Not sure what the answer is to fix it though.

The answer to missing touch finders is simple - make sure it goes into touch first. Drill that into every player's head and that problem is solved. As for goal and general kicking, I would see if we can lure Jonny Wilkinson to be our kicking coach. The Poms have taken all of our ex-players, so let's take one of theirs!!

 

[biggsy]

To many Tahs .. scoring tries

Be nice if they could also kick goals

 

[boyo]

I think this one might be my favourite (with the ones of Pocock and Folau on the front page)

Mike Brown in that photo:
"Screw rugby, I wanna be a dolphin"

That needs to go in the caption thread.

 

[The torpedo]

That needs to go in the caption thread.

I put it in there

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Disagree. Folau's kick out on the full cost us.

It is very difficult to believe that anyone paid Folau to play a game that was almost entirely based on kicking.
Finally, however, with Hayelett-Petty we have a bloke who can give the thing a nudge with his left foot.
We have so little faith in our kicking that on at least 2 occasions we sent it across field in our own 22, or (worse) into our own 22 and gut swamped by rush defence.
I didn't see a lot of rust either - just vulnerability to a rush defence: funny - thats what the Brumbies did to the Cheka coached Tahs a couple of seasons ago. Eddie must still watch Super **.

 

[Groucho]

It is very difficult to believe that anyone paid Folau to play a game that was almost entirely based on kicking.
Finally, however, with Hayelett-Petty we have a bloke who can give the thing a nudge with his left foot.
We have so little faith in our kicking that on at least 2 occasions we sent it across field in our own 22, or (worse) into our own 22 and gut swamped by rush defence.
I didn't see a lot of rust either - just vulnerability to a rush defence: funny - thats what the Brumbies did to the Cheka coached Tahs a couple of seasons ago. Eddie must still watch Super **.

How is Cheika's game plan more vulnerable to a rush defence than any other team's? Apart from those that kick deep out of the pocket, of course.

A rush defence is a high-risk strategy against teams that play with the ball in hand. If you miss then they score, as happened once yesterday. If you don't miss then you'll close down their attack. But that's true against any team, except those that kick by default as their game plan.

We executed poorly. The botched passing across field in the 22 was an example of that. But that wasn't against a rush defence, it was against a good kick chase. Folau's inability to kick in those situations isn't a result of the game plan: it's the other way round. That element of our game plan is designed to overcome Folau's inability to kick. Thus we have the pass to an infield man, who then has the option of kicking or running. That's all fine, and necessary. We just have to avoid the obvious trap of everybody dropping it. It doesn't matter if we're playing Cheika's, Eddie Jones or the Dalai Lama's game plan if we're going to do that.

 

[vidiot]

It must be time to bring out the chip and chase.

Wow did I really say that?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Nah, we need some of Dingo Deans's "dribbly little grubbers".

 

[Gnostic]

Well I've found my way home finally after a magnificent weekend and some new achievements on tour that will get suitably embellished and go into the legendary records.

So after a day of ruminating here is my brief take on the game from the view I had at the ground. I will watch the replay when I get a chance and reserve the right to say some or all of this is bullshit at any time in the future.

1) As others have said from my brief reading of the thread and a briefly posted last night between sorrowful whiskeys, The kicking from hand in Australian Rugby is just terrible. It is simply not up to standard. Foley, To'omua, Lilo and Debrecini (as well as McIntyre) have all missed touch on a number of occasions each from penalty kicks. As bad as that is at Super Level it is bloody terrible at Test level and becomes an unforgivable failing if it is repeated, which it has been. FFS as has been repeatedly said why haven't the players been getting some professional coaching from a proven top line kicking coach? We have that god awful game AFL played all over country and the All Blacks pillaged a specialist coach from AFL to do just that. One of Redshappy's favourite subjects over the years has been the lack of specialist coaching for Australian players in key areas, and this remains a huge gapping hole in the Australian players skill set. It might not have been a final determining factor in this loss, but it certainly didn't help and also effects the psyche of the side when kicks don't go out and are miss hit when your under the pump trying to get back into the game.
2) Poite - From where I sat he had no idea at all what was happening in the scrum without a clear and obvious advance from either side. In the second half with the scrum close to the sideline in front of me it looked like Cole was trying desperartely to get under Sio and when sio let him and stepped back Cole just collapsed. Maybe a penalty for Sio pulling back, but a YC is just plain ridiculous. The offside line was obviously voluntary thing for England last night around the ruck.
3) Considering the lack of a genuine second playmaker option (and no I do not rate Lilo above Super level) I think the Wallabies played a very good backline system and were pretty good and outplayed the English. The Wallabies lost this game in the forwards, and mostly in the whistle. The English did sufficient to be in the position to kick the goals but really didn't impress.

 

[neilc]

Thoughts on Nathan Grey appearing to attempt to interfere with the ball while in play?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ant-coach-in-heated-sideline-play-in-brisbane

Unless the ball was going to hit him, I don't think he has any valid reason for touching or attempting to touch it.

I thought it was very poor form for someone of Grey's calibre. Regardless of whether a quick throw was possible it was deliberate cynical play and that and along with Robshaw's neck roll which didn't get picked up by the refs should be dealt with. It's like the English in the 2011 WC where the sideline coaches were giving Jonny Wilkinson different balls for kicking.

And Robshaw should get the same penalty that we have seen in Super Rugby for neck rolls - at least 2 matches off. Amazing that with the crackdown on neck rolls that someone would do it.

 

[Dave Beat]

Be nice if they could also kick goals

yeeeeeerrrrrrrrp - thats good one, and paid.

 

[Gnostic]

Thoughts on Nathan Grey appearing to attempt to interfere with the ball while in play?



http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/80974634/mike-brown-shoves-wallabies-assistant-coach-in-heated-sideline-play-in-brisbane



Unless the ball was going to hit him, I don't think he has any valid reason for touching or attempting to touch it.

Nothing in it really, it is common for anybody over the touchline, player or team official to handle the ball as soon as it is in reach, usually then giving it to the ball boy/girl to prevent the quick through. Mike Brown should not really be picking on people who could tear him a new one with a look. Petulant tool that he is.

If the Poms want to have a whinge about it, this is below the entry level compared to their ball tampering in tests and RWC matches.