Wallabies v Pumas - Saturday 17 September, nib Stadium Perth

[TSR]

In the seventh Test of the season? Pretty sure Deans would been virtually hung, drawn & quartered in similar circumstances.

And Cheika is coping plenty.

Your comments suggest Robbie Dean's was harshly treated.

He was a professional test rugby coach who made plenty of mistakes and consequently was unable to deliver on the key KPIs.

That was only ever going to end one way.

 

[tragic]

Weren't we down to 14 men during that period?

Yes but the point I was making is our scrum was weaker then and less able to cope with one less person, so it was not all Fardys fault.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

And Cheika is coping plenty.

Your comments suggest Robbie Dean's was harshly treated.

He was a professional test rugby coach who made plenty of mistakes and consequently was unable to deliver on the key KPIs.

That was only ever going to end one way.

As someone once said, history never really repeats but sometimes it echoes....

EDIT: rhymes, not echoes, I think.

 

[tragic]

From memory it was at scrum time that he did replace him.

Can I recind my concession? He was replaced at the time of a lineout
There were no scrums for the rest of the half, in fact for 5 mins after the card.
There were two scrums in the second half before coleman came back on
One was a full arm penalty to the ABs anyway.
The second was a half arm to the wallabies from an AB early engagement.
So it was a wasted substitution if the scrum was the sole reason

 

[cyclopath]

Can I recind my concession? He was replaced at the time of a lineout
There were no scrums for the rest of the half, in fact for 5 mins after the card.
There were two scrums in the second half before coleman came back on
One was a full arm penalty to the ABs anyway.
The second was a half arm to the wallabies from an AB early engagement.
So it was a wasted substitution if the scrum was the sole reason

Certainly with the benefit of hindsight it would seem to be.


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[Joe Blow]

Coleman and Simmons can be a very good combo in the second row. There is always the option to replace one with Arnold and the other by moving Mumm into the second row to be replaced by McMahon or preferably Timani.
The whole starting back row are 80 minute players.
We might see a 6/2 bench for this one.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Hey bloke, I have different recollections. They mostly centre around Simmo being dealt a pup. No opportunity at all with the non-jumpers he had to call to.

Just my view of course.

Think we're saying much the same thing.

 

[boyo]

Betcha pounds to peanuts the "home" crowd will be supporting the Argies against us pesky colonials

Short memories.

 

[Hawko]

Pumas Team


1.Nahuel Chaparro
2.Agustin Creevy (c)
3.Ramiro Herrera
4.Javier Desio
5.Matias Alemanno
6.Pablo Matera
7.Juan Leguizamon
8.Facundo Isa
9.Tomas Cubelli
10.Nicolas Sanchez
11.Lucas Amorosino
12.Santiago Iglesias
13.Matias Moroni
14.Santiago Cordero
15.Joaquin Tuculet

16.Julian Montoya
17.Lucas Noguera
18.Enrique Peretto
19.Marcos Kremer
20.Leonardo Senatore
21.Martin Landajo
22.Gabriel Ascarate
23.Matias Orlando

Landajo to the bench, Cubelli to start. Didn't expect that, thought Landajo was a lock on 9.

Am pretty confident we'll dominate the scrum; especially the finishers.

 

[Marcelo]

Landajo to the bench, Cubelli to start. Didn't expect that, thought Landajo was a lock on 9.

Am pretty confident we'll dominate the scrum; especially the finishers.

I think that is good for OZ. Landajo is not a fast player, so doesn't work as impact player. He's the better option to start and then Cubelli is the perfect impact player.

 

[KOB1987]

Can I recind my concession? He was replaced at the time of a lineout
There were no scrums for the rest of the half, in fact for 5 mins after the card.
There were two scrums in the second half before coleman came back on
One was a full arm penalty to the ABs anyway.
The second was a half arm to the wallabies from an AB early engagement.
So it was a wasted substitution if the scrum was the sole reason

Yeah ok. I do remember that fardy was going ok and thinking it was a shame he had to be subbed. Regardless of the actual reasoning I think it's safe to say that the sub wouldn't have been made if Coleman wasn't in the bin.

EDIT: how was our line out going at the time and how did it go subsequently? If it was already under pressure, with one key jumper in the bin the sub may have been for the good of the set piece generally, not just the scrum.

 

[tragic]

Certainly with the benefit of hindsight it would seem to be.


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Yeah hindsight is a wonderful thing.
But I do remember thinking it was an odd decision at the time especially with so long left in the game and our history of lock injuries. We would have been in far more trouble if Coleman or Mumm went down injured soon after the substitution.
I would have thought the safest option would have been to sit tight and wait to see if there was an AB scrum near our line before he took the plunge. And as it turns out that strategy would have been fine
I guess you could argue so was Cheikas, but it just seemed a bit reactive and ill considered to me, especially that close to half time.
Unless, as KOB points out, he was more concerned about the lineout (which has not been most people's assumption)
Either way I agree with BR it was a bit mystifying.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I thought we had finally seen the last of Simmons until he shows something in NRC or Super Rugby games to deserve reselection.

In NRC games for QLD country he was bloody ordinary.

Sick of seeing same past failures recycled. Speight another case in point. Not a fan of Speight at all as shown nothing for 2 years. Who cares how he played in 2013/14.....Palu back then was also world class. But newsflash - this is 2016/17 and Speight is no longer world class, and not really showing anything to threaten he will be.

Rant over.....

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Plus I am still filthy for Speight losing us the 7's Sydney Final against NZ as with seconds to go and Australia leading he took the ball into a trapped maul situation (dumb) which led to NZ scrum feed and the rest was history.

 

[fatprop]

Simmons is an enigma, he has played some really good rugby for the Wobs

Hopefully he will on Saturday

He maybe being selected to help shore up the lineout, the argies are pretty effective and having Coleman, Mumm and Simmons means we have no excuse in not competing at every lineout and forcing the throw to where we want it

Speight? Still a good player who has been smashed by injury over the last two years, he needs playing time running over and around units

 

[Train Without a Station]

But what expectations exactly are you judging Simmons poor form on rugbynutter?

On the limited stats available, he's running 5 times per game for 2m per run and making 10/11 tackles in a game.

That's superior to what Coleman delivered across the Super Rugby season.

If he's hanging out wide and delivering that in attack then it's not very good but if he's playing a normal tight forward game and hitting rucks that's pretty much exactly what you want him doing.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Plus I am still filthy for Speight losing us the 7's Sydney Final against NZ as with seconds to go and Australia leading he took the ball into a trapped maul situation (dumb) which led to NZ scrum feed and the rest was history.

And 8 against 7 on the ground as I recall.

 

[RugbyReg]

Pumas Team


1.Nahuel Chaparro
2.Agustin Creevy (c)
3.Ramiro Herrera
4.Javier Desio
5.Matias Alemanno
6.Pablo Matera
7.Juan Leguizamon
8.Facundo Isa
9.Tomas Cubelli
10.Nicolas Sanchez
11.Lucas Amorosino
12.Santiago Iglesias
13.Matias Moroni
14.Santiago Cordero
15.Joaquin Tuculet

16.Julian Montoya
17.Lucas Noguera
18.Enrique Peretto
19.Marcos Kremer
20.Leonardo Senatore
21.Martin Landajo
22.Gabriel Ascarate
23.Matias Orlando

not a massive lineout for what it's worth. Mumm, Coleman and Simmons all taller than their opponents. In fact Desio is just 193cm

 

[KOB1987]

Yeah hindsight is a wonderful thing.
But I do remember thinking it was an odd decision at the time especially with so long left in the game and our history of lock injuries. We would have been in far more trouble if Coleman or Mumm went down injured soon after the substitution.
I would have thought the safest option would have been to sit tight and wait to see if there was an AB scrum near our line before he took the plunge. And as it turns out that strategy would have been fine
I guess you could argue so was Cheikas, but it just seemed a bit reactive and ill considered to me, especially that close to half time.
Unless, as KOB points out, he was more concerned about the lineout (which has not been most people's assumption)
Either way I agree with BR it was a bit mystifying.

I do remember thinking the same thing at the time. And speaking of that, Fardy did reappear briefly on the field late in the game, is there a blood bin ruling or something like that which allows it for players other than front rowers? EDIT - I just checked and Fardy subbed back on for Pocock for minutes 63 to 69, so presumably it's allowed for concussion testing. If Pocock had then failed the test would Fardy have been allowed to stay on?

 

[Scrubber2050]

Simmons was also shown to be incapable of running the lineout this year....

Arnold never ran the lineout.

Cheika runs the lineout !