Where to for Super Rugby?

[wamberal]

Cmon, you don't need a crystal ball, or a law degree, to know when you make commitments in writing,you shouldn't then make plans contrary to what you have agreed to.

Its corporate arse covering 101, before you go to London, you double check with the lawyers that you can use the nuclear option on one or both of these franchises.

Seriously, as if no one could have seen this coming..

Links? Who predicted that this would happen? Name some names.

 

[Quick Hands]

I question how much those who aren't engaged with Super Rugby (particularly in Sydney or Brisbane) would embrace an effectively lower tier team just because they were only playing other Aussie teams.

Personally I think I would be less inclined to become a member than I am of the Waratahs. It would be a struggle to create passion for that new side that would make you dedicate a significant amount of your social life quota to it.

Rugby League and AFL have the necessary tribalism but I am not convinced that would readily transfer to a bunch of new teams in a domestic rugby comp.

Hang on a minute, isn't this what you and others are arguing against when you bag the SS clubs and advocate support for NRC entities?

Note: I am a dedicated SS supporter with the Marlins and also a supporter of the Rays.

 

[Quick Hands]

Links? Who predicted that this would happen? Name some names.

In April 2016 , both Pulver and Clyne said that they were committed to 5 Australian Super Rugby teams - both specifically mentioned the Force. Articles have been posted on this thread (including by me with and article from the ARU website) attesting to this. The same two gentlemen are now advocating the exact opposite (and if what they have uttered recently in correct, they went to London with the expressed intention of boning the Force).

I hav a lot of respect for your views on rugby, I find it incongruous that you can't even accept criticism of the ARU when it involves only their own statements at two different points in time (less than 12 months apart btw)

 

[Quick Hands]

The cynic in me thinks the Kiwi's would be happy to maintain the status quo while it works to their advantage. The idea that they need strong competition from us and the Saffers to keep ahead of the pack has quite frankly been blown away the past 2 years. While we stagnate or regress they continue improve. And while they are surrounded by the mystical aura that is NZ Rugby (which is justified) they will continue to hold all of the cards..

Correct, this bizarre idea that the NZRU are going to rescue Australian rugby is pure fantasy. The NZRU are in it for NZ rugby (as they should be) nothing more nothing less. They've pillaged the islands for decades and have achieved world supremacy winning the last two world cups. They are rightlfully considered to be the best team in the world (ABs) from the strongest rugby country in the world.

They aren't going to help us, they aren't going to save us and people need to face that reality.

 

[Pfitzy]

Yep. I'm not sure who promised we'd be less shit just because South Africa were flicked, but they might want to shut up now they've seen the Tahs fall over against some plucky strugglers from the Southern Cape.

 

[Upthenuts]

Correct, this bizarre idea that the NZRU are going to rescue Australian rugby is pure fantasy. The NZRU are in it for NZ rugby (as they should be) nothing more nothing less. They've pillaged the islands for decades and have achieved world supremacy winning the last two world cups. They are rightlfully considered to be the best team in the world (ABs) from the strongest rugby country in the world.

They aren't going to help us, they aren't going to save us and people need to face that reality.

the aru has had plenty of d grade kiwi born talent, topped by quade cooper and robbie deans, nzs been quite supportive

 

[Inside Shoulder]

the aru has had plenty of d grade kiwi born talent, topped by quade cooper and robbie deans, nzs been quite supportive

You could have let us have Brad Thorn.
I think he might be a good source for fixing oz rugby - he knew who wanted to play for and why, and it can't have been loyalty.
Edit: the QLD u20 side had a hint of tHorne hardness and he coached - or am I just hoping?

 

[I like to watch]

Links? Who predicted that this would happen? Name some names.

I'm not sure if you're trolling, or are not nearly as smart as you keep telling us?

 

[Upthenuts]

You could have let us have Brad Thorn.
I think he might be a good source for fixing oz rugby - he knew who wanted to play for and why, and it can't have been loyalty

brad had a dream to be the best Brad Thorn he could be, that meant the ABs, if he could pass on that drive to current aussie players he'd do more than the last 15 years of coaches have

 

[RedsHappy]

Links? Who predicted that this would happen? Name some names.

Bill, whilst appreciating the considerable stress you are under at this difficult time (not helped by your Chairman constantly stepping over you), surely you'll remember the multiple times you (or your media guys) leaked to News Corp journos immediately after the London SANZAAR meeting that the Force would be boned? And they quoted the leaks verbatim!

I can only imagine the personal embarrassment when the Force opened their filing cabinet and discovered you'd agreed to keep them on until 2020. Bloody hard to go into denial mode when there's agreements in writing (the Di Patston matter being the exception - that hush-up after the $400,000 paid out 'strictly confidentially' worked rather well.)

You and I know - these things can happen in amongst a busy executive life.

 

[RedsHappy]

I'm not sure if you're trolling, or are not nearly as smart as you keep telling us?

ILTW - not a respectful manner by which to address Bill; the high office he occupies should be dealt with somewhat more politely (whatever his otherwise troubling incapacities and current struggles, with which we all sympathise).

 

[RedsHappy]

....... Sometimes a wild left field idea can transmogrify into something new and wonderful.

Agree! Like the 'anointing' of Larkham as Wallaby HC to be!

 

[The Honey Badger]

@Quickhands, you had a very fine post some 20 pages back. This thread is too out of control to go looking for it. But you suggested how to reorganise the administration structure for Rugby in this country.

It was a very fine post but should have been in the administration thread.

What I think we should be discussing here is how the various teams and competitions are organised.

If we were to start again, from a green field situation, what competitions do we have?

Let's say a National team is a given and we are all agreed.

Then according to most people on this thread every other level is up for debate.

Is the next level down still provincial? And what teams and who do they play.,?

Where does NRC fit?
Where does club fit?
Subbies?

My thoughts are we drop South Africa and set up a provincial comp in this time zone (with or without New Zealand) including pacific Island teams and Japan.

Then an enhanced NRC comp.

Then club as it is now but perhaps this is where ARU intervention is required to support struggling clubs and help develop the game in non traditional areas.

Thoughts?

 

[GaffaCHinO]

Links? Who predicted that this would happen? Name some names.

If you go have a look at the Western Force 2017 thread I stated weeks ago (mid march on TWF) that this would happen from sources close to the force (who turned out to be board members) who where commenting on TWF that the Force had the agreement up their sleeve all along. It was put out there how the ARU where not awear of it beggars belief for a so called professionals organisation.

 

[chibimatty]

Not true. We have a slightly better chance of getting a win against them.

HA! Actually an Oz-SA comp would be a bloody interesting proposition at this point in time! None of the shellackings, no OzWees in the crowd booing the home team and most of the franchises in large-ish cities!

Heh heh heh

 

[Kenny Powers]

Clyne is essentially a part-time retiree at the ripe old age of 49.

He clocks in flexitime boardroom gigs and has decided to put family time before company time.

The former NAB boss struck an arrangement with Robinson that gave the former Brumbies captain the duties of attending all overseas meetings.

And now it's time for Clyne to retire from Australian Rugby.

For the record whilst Michael Hawker was CEO of IAG (NRMA Insurance), Brett Robinson was employed at IAG

Jan 2006 - Aug 2009 Insurance Australia Group (IAG) State Manager, Queensland

Apr 2005 - Jan 2006 Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Senior Manager – Medical Policy Research and Planning


This was immediately following his stint as General Manager of the High Performance Unit at the ARU.

Michael Hawker then retires from the Chairman's role, Brett Robinson becomes the Deputy Chairman and in a very unusual arrangement represents the ARU Internationally.

We have a very shallow gene pool.

 

[Brumby Runner]

You do realise what a wobbegong is, and where it lives?

A shark and lives in Sydney Harbour? Couldnt quickly think of a suitable western animal starting with w.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It is a shame John Clarke has passed away (RIP) - this fiasco would be excellent in a Clarke & Dawe skit!

A couple of seasons of 13 episodes each at least I'd think.

 

[Quick Hands]

@Quickhands, you had a very fine post some 20 pages back. This thread is too out of control to go looking for it. But you suggested how to reorganise the administration structure for Rugby in this country.

It was a very fine post but should have been in the administration thread.

What I think we should be discussing here is how the various teams and competitions are organised.

If we were to start again, from a green field situation, what competitions do we have?

Let's say a National team is a given and we are all agreed.

Then according to most people on this thread every other level is up for debate.

Is the next level down still provincial? And what teams and who do they play.,?

Where does NRC fit?
Where does club fit?
Subbies?

My thoughts are we drop South Africa and set up a provincial comp in this time zone (with or without New Zealand) including pacific Island teams and Japan.

Then an enhanced NRC comp.

Then club as it is now but perhaps this is where ARU intervention is required to support struggling clubs and help develop the game in non traditional areas.

Thoughts?

I have no particular problem with a trans-Tasman provincial competition. The big hurdle is that NZ have repeatedly stated that they won't be involved at all.

That means that the NRC effectively becomes a national provincial competition. I'd like the Pacific Islands involved if it's economic to do so. Planning on this should start now (probably should have already started).

The best thing that the ARU can do for clubs (grade and subbies) is to provide resources and to help get more kids playing.

We're contractually locked in to super rugby until 2020 (assuming that what has been disclosed to us is factually correct), this should be ready to go before negotiations even start for the next super rugby competition so that we can say up front to our partners, thanks and part on good terms. It shouldn't affect test match rugby unless the other countries want it to do so. That's beyond our control though.

 

[Omar Comin']

A shark and lives in Sydney Harbour? Couldnt quickly think of a suitable western animal starting with w.

I've always thought there needs to be a major Australian sporting team called the Wombats.