• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Where to for Super Rugby?

Status
Not open for further replies.
F

Forcefield

Ken Catchpole (46)
Like x 10.

Entitlement. I am sick of players getting hyped in the media for some amazing characteristic and fail at the higher levels because they are unfit with other skills. Will Skelton is 130-140kgs but so what if he isn't a good scrummager, line-out jumper and can go missing in games (admittedly he is getting better) and Adam Coleman was overlooked in his place. Taqele Nayaravoro is a 125kg winger but so what if he isn't a good defender, can't kick and has poor handling skills and more well-rounded wingers are overlooked in their place. To me, it doesn't breed a culture of excellence. Israel Folau is a great ball runner and great with the high ball- but I don't know if I'd say he has developed as a player over the last few years.
 
wamberal

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Hyping in the media means diddleysquat. Building a culture of excellence starts and ends in the dressing sheds, the training paddock, weights room, etc, and above all the field of combat.
 
Gnostic

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Quick Hands said:
None of which is possible if the administration aren't up to the task.
Click to expand...



A sense of entitlement is not only the province of players. With professionalism came "professional" remuneration for those in admin. Where has the performance been.

I listened to a very interesting podcast interview on Pyscopathic behaviour

http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/conversations-david-gillespie/8717944

a few individuals much discussed here display more than a few of the traits.
 
F

Forcefield

Ken Catchpole (46)
wamberal said:
Hyping in the media means diddleysquat. Building a culture of excellence starts and ends in the dressing sheds, the training paddock, weights room, etc, and above all the field of combat.
Click to expand...

I am not saying it means diddleysquat. I am just saying it annoys me when the media bang on about the next whizz kid who is 150kg or can kick penalties from over 60m or are 215cm tall and who amount to nothing.

I agree with QH that ultimately it starts with administration. I just get a feeling that our administrations don't know how to dig themselves out of the mires they find themselves in so they resort to buying star players, taking punts on the latest whizz kid, etc and ignore the meat and potatoes stuff that makes teams successful. They have their priorities right. I felt like the 2011 Reds got this right and now have become lost along the way. I hope the Force are in this position now but it may not come to be if we are booted.
 
F

Forcefield

Ken Catchpole (46)
While watching the Lions against the Hurricanes, I am reminded of the Hurricanes rise to the top of South African rugby. They were a basket case for good few years and really turned things around without recruiting star players, etc. I can only hope we are currently in "the recession we had to have".
 
I like to watch

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Forcefield said:
While watching the Lions against the Hurricanes, I am reminded of the Hurricanes rise to the top of South African rugby. They were a basket case for good few years and really turned things around without recruiting star players, etc. I can only hope we are currently in "the recession we had to have".
Click to expand...
Seems like a better analogy might be the Great Depression.
0 from 26 v NZ this year, and we still have to live through 3 Test matches against them.
 
Highlander35

Highlander35

Andrew Slack (58)
How did the 7s and U20s do against NZ? Anyway you can pretend it's not as bad as it seems, or is it just as awful in those mediums too?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 
M

Moono75

Guest
Good work by Nick Taylor at the West Australian!

Bill Pulver’s Western Force assurances turn into empty promises


Australian Rugby Union chief executive Bill Pulver may not like to be reminded of pledges he made to Western Force as he tries to axe the club from next year’s Super Rugby competition. More than once he said the future was safe. They are assurances that have turned into empty promises.

On Monday the Force finally get to confront their would-be executioner when they face the ARU in their unprecedented legal battle for survival. The long running farce moves to behind closed doors arbitration, 113 days since the under siege ARU boldly pronounced it was going to cut the Force or Melbourne Rebels.

RugbyWA is confident its legal team, led by Malcolm McCusker, one of WA’s most experienced legal figures, has a watertight case. McCusker will argue that, among clauses in the ARU alliance with the Force, there is a guarantee to keep a side in Perth until the current broadcast deal ends in three years.

The ARU will claim that because two South African teams have been cut and SANZAAR agreed to losing an Australian team, it brings a new deal. The hearing is listed for five days but even when a decision comes down it will not end the fight. If the Force is successful the cash-strapped ARU will have to consider whether it can afford a further expensive and lengthy battle against a club that has billionaire Andrew Forrest and a growing number of other big money players firmly in their corner.

The Force has also already flagged it will seek costs expected to be about $650,000.
If the arbitrator agrees with the ARU the Force will look at an appeal to the Supreme Court and are investigating all other legal avenues. None of that is good news for the ARU that insists it needs to cut a club because it does not have the financial capability or player depth to justify five teams.

Yet it will not explain what will happen if the Force win arbitration and Rebels owner Andrew Cox refuses to sell back his license. The standard answer to questions about a plan B is that “all will be revealed when and if necessary” but the ARU may have to go cap in hand to SANZAAR, apologizing for the debacle it has created.

A SANZAAR spokesman said that because of arbitration and requests from legal entities there would be no comment on the tournament, potential outcomes, what may eventuate and what the future may hold.

“As per the SANZAAR Exco (executive committee) decision in April and subsequent announcement on April 9 the 2018 Super Rugby tournament is to be restructured to include 15 teams: five from NZ, four from Australia, four from RSA, one from Japan and one from Argentina,” he said.

There seems no doubt the ARU believed it could discard the Force. It claimed the axe would fall within 48-72 hours of the announcement, made minutes after the Force’s 46-41 victory over Southern Kings at nib Stadium. Even as the announcement was being made two senior ARU staff were flying to Perth with their ill-conceived plan to oust the Force. Ironically the two men, chief operating officer Rob Clarke and chief financial officer Todd Day have both resigned.

But if the governing body thought the Force were simply going to roll over and disappear from Australia’s rugby landscape they had seriously misjudged the strength of feeling.

They launched a massive off-field offensive that stunned the ARU.
  • They began legal action, issuing a writ claiming the ARU were bound by the alliance agreement.
  • They found flaws in the business evaluation on which the ARU had based its argument to cull the club.
  • They launched the Own The Force campaign to sell shares and raise upwards of $5 million to turn the franchise into Australia’s biggest fan-owned club.
  • They struck a $1.5 million sponsorship with the Road Safety Commission, the biggest 12-month deal ever signed by an Australian Super Rugby franchise, with a three-year rollover renewal option.
  • They received the full backing of mining magnate Forrest and other influential business figures in a fighting fund.
The fight is now in the hands of the legal teams but whatever the outcome it is hard to see the damage to the integrity of Australian rugby being fully restored for a long time to come.

What Bill Pulver said February 2013, on his first visit to Perth after his appointment.
“No chance in the world that there will not be a Western Force.

“We are 150 per cent committed to the franchises that we have. The future development of rugby, unquestionably in my mind, will involve the Perth team.

“The five franchises are non-negotiable. I don’t think I can make that any clearer. It is crystal clear in my mind there will always be five franchises.”

March 2016, after talks with RugbyWA and the State Government.
“I would be very confident in telling you that the Western Force are going to be a successful part of the Perth sporting scene for a long, long time.

“I still am very much a supporter of a national footprint for Super Rugby and you do not want to do anything that’s going to have any negative on the local community engagement.”

November 2016, on the Own The Force scheme to buy back their license from the ARU and become financially independent.
“If our Super Rugby clubs were put in a fundamentally stronger position financially, that would influence the decision. The dialogue that’s going on out west is incredibly relevant.”
 
One eyed pirate

One eyed pirate

Ward Prentice (10)
So far this weekend I have noticed say 7 or 8 league games on tv and a similar number of afl games. I'm currently watching schoolboy! rugby league on fox 502. Shute shield was on abc sat pm but the ARU has nothing to do with that. League is suffering a worse decline in player registration numbers than union.
Yet the difference in televised support of grassroots comps is huge. Who cares whether the Lions beat the Hurricanes in SA overnight! It's easy to see what the answer is, stop saying it's complicated and get off your high horses.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
wamberal

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Okay, I'll bite. What's the simple answer?


Put some costings with your answer, please. Just rough ones.


(The SS used to be on ABC TV until Abbott and Hockey - both former rugby players - cut their budgets. Now it is on 7MATE, with an audience of 20k or so. How does that compare with what the other codes draw on FTA???)
 
Dismal Pillock

Dismal Pillock

Simon Poidevin (60)
You know the comp is fucked when even the Cantab crowd cant be bothered to turn up for a home semi. Surely there was some sort of fuck-you going on with ticket prices? It wasnt even raining! Huge expanses of empty seating, no mean feat in the new tinpot Lancaster park rec centre, extended seating capacity of 300.

The Sanzar execs tuning in mustve been as gobsmacked as everyone else to see the teams walking down that outdoor tunnel to be greeted by a completely empty temporary stand at one end and the main 1970’s rickshaw abomination stand with about 50 pricks sitting in it. Imagine one of the bigwig money guys who knows nothing about rugby probably got on the blower immediately to chew someone out wth a “what the fuck is that? Is THAT our business model? Empty wet bleachers in the middle of fucking nowhere? Hear that sound? That’s the sound of air escaping the semantically-bubbled creation of meaning that is sports broadcasting. Pack up your shit monkeypants, you are fucking fired.”
 
kiap

kiap

Steve Williams (59)
WorkingClassRugger said:
Ross Xenos pressing his case for a Asia-Pacific competition in NZ.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/o...on-will-make-rugby-super-again?cid=app-iPhone
Click to expand...

I think what Xenos is advocating is a while away. NZ won't be interested until the realities of Super Rugby are totally bitten off.

And to be frank, it's hard to blame them. Australian Rugby is barely worth playing right now. Any Trans-Tasman component will need to be revamped and cut back to be viable in the short-term.

By all means ANZ games still need to be there, but 26-nil cannot be ignored. The regular season format probably has to include fewer ANZ games until it can regrow.

A new competition in our timezone will have to be initiated by ourselves (after the ARU has been boned down).

In saying that, it was the NSWRU in the 80s that kicked off the SPC which became S6 that led to Supe. Hard to imagine it now. But that's the way Australia will need to go again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top