Where to for Twiggy Rugby?

[Omar Comin']

This competition really does have the potential to work out extremely well for not just the ARU, but SANZAAR as a whole. It's very difficult for each union to hold onto guys around the fringes of national selection, either on a small top up or none as the money in Europe for those guys is significantly greater. But with a 6 team competition financed by a billionaire (potentially multiple) you can effectively have all those guys supplementing their super rugby wages to a level that makes staying here much more competitive financially. A bit like what some players do by playing in the Japanese Top League, but at a better time of year (so players get a proper off season).

And on top of that it will test the waters in potentially lucrative Asian markets, which has to be the future in this part of the world if we're going to have any chance of competing financially with European rugby. All at no risk to the SANZAAR unions.

I expect the Force, if the only Australian team will effectively become like an Australia A side, and hopefully the rest of the competition will be made up of similar level players from NZ, SA and Argentina, plus PI's as well as the better players in Asian countries. It could also be an ideal competition for big name players at the end of their careers who don't want to put their bodies through the long European season. Like the sort of semi-retirement of ageing cricketers who play in the IPL and big bash for a couple of seasons after retiring from international cricket. These guys could basically have a 6 month off-season and 3 month pre-season each year. And for that group you're talking about former test stars from all around the world.

And because the competition is so concentrated the effect on the NRC, Currie Cup and M10 Cup would be fairly minimal if all the unions get behind it. You'd only be removing the top 5-10% of players from these leagues.

 

[TOCC]

You mean Act that hasn't asked for money and made money this year after shit deals.. It's a bit rich to call it a safe net.. How bout good business.. Aquis picked Brumby land

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Don't fool yourself Tomikin, Brumbies have lost more money then the Tahs and Reds in the past 5 years, the profits form the sale of the last homeground are gone, they are as financially frail as the rest of them going forward.

 

[mst]

Brumbies have zero capital, nil investment and minimal assets. Less bricks and mortar so to speak than any other franchise. It is actually hard to identify anything tangible the Brumbies own. On the plus side they have minimal overheads and commitments.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Very interesting and positive.

ARU chairman Cameron Clyne said the national body was committed to working with Forrest on the IPRC.

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2017/09/15/aru-forrest-working-group

Yes positive signs as factions working together for betterment of Australia rugby - I would like to see that. Now if only the state unions would equally learn how to do that...


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[Quick Hands]

Banks are an absolutely crucial component of the economic system.

Yes, banks are a crucial part of the economy, although I'd suggest that having 4 large banks that are essentially "too big to fail" isn't really capitalism, it's more like a corporate oligarchy.

People who are responsible for running banks are actually under huge pressure to perform in a very competitive environment. That is why bank CEOs get paid so much.

Indeed, it takes a very special individual to run an organisation which:

1. alters loan agreements at short notice in order to foreclose on farmers,

2. encourages its staff (through commissions and lax oversight) to give dodgy finacial advice to its own customers, causing many of the said customers to lose life savings/retirement savings/considerable money

3. uses market power and financial resources to exhaust customers with grievances in the court system

4. is involved in money laudering for organised crime

5. close 100s of branches, sack 1000s of staff, apply punitive fees to its own customers well in excess of the cost of the service

No wonder Clyne had little trouble exterminating the Force - who now doubt naively thought that the ARU entered into the alliance agreement with them to provide support to rugby in WA and to work co-operatively with them to make them fanancially stable. Little did they know that the agreement would be used as a method of reducing the number of franchises in Australia - certainly not what RWA would have thought was intended at the time of signing.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I am wondering if I have worked out some longer term thinking for Indo pacific comp.

So I am assuming how they plan to compete with Europe for players is that top players will play super rugby and then play tf's competition.

I am also thinking that what tf's team has in mind with this 6 team Comp is effectively it could transition to 3rd super rugby conference post 2020 in new super rugby competition when sa leave.

If the above is behind some of the thinking I could see how they may be able to lure back players from Europe and how it may be providing a platform for revitalising super rugby post 2020 to more trans Tasman Indo pacific comp that is Timezone friendly and including key Asian new markets and growth areas for rugby.

I think lot of things to work out but quite a bit more excited by the prospects offered. As may not get it completely right when launch in first year but suspect with backers they will have they will be able to afford to tinker to get it right within a couple of years.


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[ForceFan]

A very encouraging article by Wayne Smith from last Friday's Australian. It covers the bigger RUPA perspective and provides some background to Twiggy's motivation.

 

[kiap]

If Twiggy wants to go "dollar for dollar", or the half-year equivalent, with the English Premiership or Pro12 then this is where they're at…

… the average figure in the Aviva Premiership was about £200,000 a man last season.

That was some 15%, or £30,000 a year, more than in the PRO12, and the gulf is set to widen to 20% this season with England’s flagship benefiting from a rise in television and other revenue …

Clicky

That's supposedly the average, with the peak obviously above that again. Will the IPRC bid in significant quantity for overseas Aussies or other marquee players? I guess if they do, it will be more likely in season two, should it get that far.

Interesing also is the comparison of pay rankings by position in the two leagues. Flyhalves at the top in both, but TH props higher up the chain in England. I dare say the current Aussie Super profile would be more like the Pro12.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Part of the pay matching I am suspecting is that a player who plays both Super Rugby and Twiggyball versus playing one overseas comp.

Does that mean in effect a player playing Super Rugby and twiggyball has longer season and more games than player playing in overseas competition. Questions I don't have answers for....

 

[Strewthcobber]

Very crudely, the Super rugby average is around ($5m/30) $160k so we'll need another $150k per player to gain parity.

Obviously excludes ARU topups, but it doesn't look like you could play Twiggy and be in the Wallaby squad in any case

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[zer0]

Interesing also is the comparison of pay rankings by position in the two leagues. Flyhalves at the top in both, but TH props higher up the chain in England. I dare say the current Aussie Super profile would be more like the Pro12.

Fullback master race! Suck it front rowers, flankers, halfbacks, centres and wingers.

 

[Ignoto]

You mean Act that hasn't asked for money and made money this year after shit deals.. It's a bit rich to call it a safe net.. How bout good business.. Aquis picked Brumby land

Uh Tomikin, I think you're forgetting why KPMG was brought in to review the Brumbies books and the findings handed over the AFP.....

I wouldn't say anything the Brumbies have done in the last decade has been good business from a Grassroots perspective. Good business for Andrew Fagan and Co, but not for rugby as a whole.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Very crudely, the Super rugby average is around ($5m/30) $160k so we'll need another $150k per player to gain parity.

Obviously excludes ARU topups, but it doesn't look like you could play Twiggy and be in the Wallaby squad in any case

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Do you know something that the rest of us don't? Last I saw, the ARU and Forrest were trying to work out a deal where those playing in IPRC would retain eligibility for the Wallabies.

 

[dru]

Do you know something that the rest of us don't? Last I saw, the ARU and Forrest were trying to work out a deal where those playing in IPRC would retain eligibility for the Wallabies.

I also thought they were targeting a period similar to NRC - much shorter season. Wages won't match full season wages but acting as a top up may take some players and allow them to compete with what they might earn in Europe.

 

[Braveheart81]

Do you know something that the rest of us don't? Last I saw, the ARU and Forrest were trying to work out a deal where those playing in IPRC would retain eligibility for the Wallabies.

I think his premise was that players won't get a big contract for the IPRC if they are going to be in the Wallabies throughout that competition.

So I guess if we were talking about luring someone back from Europe (let's say Matt To'omua) and to compete with Europe he'd need a good Super Rugby salary, and a good IPRC contract, would it make sense for the IPRC to offer him big money if he might not actually play in it because he was part of the Wallabies.

I guess that much is unknown. It depends what sort of money the IPRC offers and what sort of deal they have with the ARU in regards to the Wallabies (i.e. if you end up getting paid for test matches and unavailable for IPRC games, does that amount come off your IPRC contract so they aren't paying you for nothing)?

 

[Strewthcobber]

Do you know something that the rest of us don't? Last I saw, the ARU and Forrest were trying to work out a deal where those playing in IPRC would retain eligibility for the Wallabies.

I only know that the comp starts late Aug next year, and with home and away + finals for 6 teams, you'll need at least 12 weeks.

The Wallabies usually play around 8 or 9 matches in that window.

You'll be eligible to play for the Wallabies, but if selected you won't be able to play for your Twiggy team

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[Derpus]

Yeesh, wingers are criminally over-valued by both leagues, and that's coming from a winger. You'd think 7's would be paid more as well.

 

[TOCC]

I only know that the comp starts late Aug next year, and with home and away + finals for 6 teams, you'll need at least 12 weeks.

The Wallabies usually play around 8 or 9 matches in that window.

You'll be eligible to play for the Wallabies, but if selected you won't be able to play for your Twiggy team

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Remember that next year is the last year that Super Rugby will finish in Aug, from 2019 it will finish by Jun as the global calendar shifts.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Remember that next year is the last year that Super Rugby will finish in Aug, from 2019 it will finish by Jun as the global calendar shifts.

Doesn't change much for wallaby squad members though right?

International windows in the first three weeks of July and November.

14 weeks between windows and the Wallabies will play TRC + an extra bled and usually one more game. With byes and squad time you aren't left with much left for a club

Maybe you fit a couple of games in like the NRC at the moment.

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[kiap]

Remember that next year is the last year that Super Rugby will finish in Aug, from 2019 it will finish by Jun as the global calendar shifts.

And after 2020, the first half of the calendar could also open up.