Waratahs 2013

[Inside Shoulder]

so was rob horne at one stage too

A standout , a 10 or both?
What's his injury status?
Was he in that vid of the coogee stairs waratahjesus ?


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[fatprop]

The long ball is over used on occasions, but any player who throws the "harbour bridge" should not be a ball player.
I agree that the ball carrier needs options, but if the defence knows that the 10 can't or won't throw long, they will squeeze in and cover each of the support players.
Look at all the tries where the short ball works. it's because one of the defenders was worried about the cut pass to the overs runner and stays out to cover that option.

It is up the the supporting runners to position them selves so they are a threat with or without the ball, that is what creates more space for the ball carrier - that threat.

The reason they can squeeze in is because the support players have not demonstrated the skill to catch and pass and positioning be that threat.

The reality is the All Blacks throw few wide balls near contact, they have worked on their skills to the extent that from 1 to 15 they are confident they can draw and pass near contact, and create opportunities.

 

[I like to watch]

The reality is the AB's back their 12 on a one on one. look at the stats for passes/offloads.They are not drawing and passing, they are relying on dominating the contact and exploiting the opportunities that come from that.
The reason they can squeeze in, is because defensive structures have learnt to counter overlaps. If you run 4 on 3 drills at training and forbid the cut out pass, they will shut it down every time.
Anyway, the original point was that Horne has not been flattered by having both a mediocre 10 and a crash baller at 12 in the past few years.

 

[southsider]

A standout , a 10 or both?
What's his injury status?
Was he in that vid of the coogee stairs waratahjesus ?


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well both, he was amazing in juniors and often played at 10

 

[Richo]

To be fair, there has not been a 10 with a long ball, so he has been reliant on TC putting him in a hole.
I don't think even TC's mum would think that is a feature of his game.

Let's check. Bruce?

 

[Mals]

So who has renewed their Tahs membership for 2013?
I have. Feeling much more positive since Cheika has come on board.

 

[Richo]

So who has renewed their Tahs membership for 2013?
I have. Feeling much more positive since Cheika has come on board.

I renewed some time ago. I think our whole group did. I don't even care if we win more games -- I just want to see the team start to play with more intent, fitness, cohesion, and skill.

 

[waratahjesus]

I have but the outpouring of positive vibes coming from people are making me regret it.

 

[p.Tah]

I did

 

[en_force_er]

I have but the outpouring of positive vibes coming from people are making me regret it.

What's a Tahs game without letting a good boo rip, ey?

NOTE: Trolling MAY have taken place in this post.

 

[ShtinaTina]

I renewed before they said we could renew! Hehe

 

[Rob42]

I renewed before it was cool.

 

[The Rant]

I've renewed my determination to 'work from home' friday mornings here in europe to watch every tah game next season.

 

[topo]

I'm in x 2

 

[TSR]

Long balls are an abomination, Larkham was the variant, not the norm. For the standard 10 all it does is take away the space because of a shitty lobby pass

Just get the backs to run straight, draw and pass through the hands at contact.

and each the supporting players about depth and running lines to create decent options for the ball carrier.

Strong criticism. To me, the problem with long balls is that they are often executed badly (although, perhaps that is your point). For example, it is often quoted that a cut out is the best way to kill an overlap. However, a good, hard flat cut out to a man hitting a hole doesn't kill an overlap at all - it puts the man outside his defender without the time to react.

For mine, a backline is infinitely more threatening if you have ball players who can through a good long ball. Carter, Nonu & Smith can all through good long balls. Kurtley Beale is a better 10 now that his long passing has improved.

I'm not disagreeing with the value of basic draw and pass skills and the ability to run good lines though.

 

[The Rant]

Strong criticism. To me, the problem with long balls is that they are often executed badly. For mine, a backline is infinitely more threatening if you have ball players who can through a good long ball.

Agree - the issue starts when Long Balls become your go-to-move. And when you start wasting the advantage that numbers and hands provide.
Larkhams long balls were amazing - way out in front of the man so they hit them at full pace. But he only threw them when something was on and rarely on set moves.

But yeah, it's got to be in the bag of tricks.

 

[fatprop]

Strong criticism. To me, the problem with long balls is that they are often executed badly (although, perhaps that is your point). For example, it is often quoted that a cut out is the best way to kill an overlap. However, a good, hard flat cut out to a man hitting a hole doesn't kill an overlap at all - it puts the man outside his defender without the time to react.

For mine, a backline is infinitely more threatening if you have ball players who can through a good long ball. Carter, Nonu & Smith can all through good long balls. Kurtley Beale is a better 10 now that his long passing has improved.

I'm not disagreeing with the value of basic draw and pass skills and the ability to run good lines though.

I sort of agree, the challenge is that "long flat pass" is done consistently and effectively by one player at the moment, Quade, before him Larkham. Everyone else may throw one decent long flat pass once and a while, but not consistently. So why build a game about a random event when you can build the basic skills of the whole backline? That way you are not reliant on a randomly effective "money balls"

Foley's key skill is running from flat and passing in contact, so leverage that, his skill set and just be pragmatic.

So work on supporting from depth and quality, unselfish team skills and working the space.

 

[TSR]

I sort of agree, the challenge is that "long flat pass" is done consistently and effectively by one player at the moment, Quade, before him Larkham. Everyone else may throw one decent long flat pass once and a while, but not consistently. So why build a game about a random event when you can build the basic skills of the whole backline? That way you are not reliant on randomly effective "money balls"

Foley's key skill is running from flat and passing in contact, so leverage that, his skill set and just be pragmatic.

So work on supporting from depth and quality, unselfish team skills and working the space.

Yeah, agree with that. Not just for the Waratahs but for Australian rugby. It comes down to the loss of good basic rugby skills which seem to be lacking across the board.

EDIT: Actually, on second thougt, my preferred solution would be the coach takes the whole squad aside and teaches them passing mechanics relentlessly (and offloading in contact). Not just at the Waratahs, at every club and level, most importantly at juniors.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Yeah, agree with that. Not just for the Waratahs but for Australian rugby. It comes down to the loss of good basic rugby skills which seem to be lacking across the board.

EDIT: Actually, on second thougt, my preferred solution would be the coach takes the whole squad aside and teaches them passing mechanics relentlessly (and offloading in contact). Not just at the Waratahs, at every club and level, most importantly at juniors.

I recall reading it somewhere from some sort of expert that basic skills of catch and pass are learned/perfected in Under 10-Under 15's.

If a player hasn't learned to do those basic skills in that period, then they will be struggling for the rest of their career. In anticipation of incoming flames, I acknowledge that like all rules, there will be exceptions to this rule.

The question posed is do we invest enough in our junior coaches to adequately prepare them for this vital role? At this age group, they are either enthusiastic but time poor mums and dads (village clubs) or teachers that have been press ganged into coaching (Schools tend to corral the "best" coaches in the 16A's or 1st XV).

 

[Braveheart81]

The reality is that the best players don't do a lot of passing in the earlier ages of junior rugby.

The rest of the team generally works on the principle of passing the ball to that player and then that player runs around and through the opposition to score a try.

Maybe we need more late bloomers who spent their junior rugby passing to others and only became a star player when they were a bit older.