Federal Coalition Government 2013-?

[I like to watch]

The statement is signed by economists including former treasury secretary Bernie Fraser. Academics from the University of Sydney, University of Adelaide and University of Melbourne are represented, as well as former trade minister Craig Emerson.

Clearly independent and unbiased economists

Normally the other side of politics would have conjured up a different 63 economists promoting their point of view.
I have yet to hear one economist of note supporting the Libs POV.

 

[Braveheart81]

Normally the other side of politics would have conjured up a different 63 economists promoting their point of view.
I have yet to hear one economist of note supporting the Libs POV.

May as well be called ecommunists mate. They're all biased against the great ideas of the LNP.

 

[Ruggo]

The thing is despite the "politicalness" of the insulation commission there was clear lessons to be learned at looking at the decision making and the process (or lack of it)

But the reality is neither party will learn a thing

On the union one? For every dodgy union leader there was a business enabling them, both need to be smited.

It factors inefficiencies into the market to pay the vig and despite the clearly political agenda to start the thing any improvement/ smiting helps the economy

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

I couldn't agree more fatprop. This is why I see through the ideological union bashing smear crap. I don't think anybody disputes their are bad apples in a range of groups. I also think there are already the appropriate instruments at the disposal of criminal justice and law enforcement to deal with these bad apples.

Funny thing I find about union bashing is that we have a free and robust economy with 23 years of consecutive growth. It is a no brainer this stems from the economic reforms of the the 80's and 90's. Both Hawke and Keating have big enough egos to take the credit but the true linchpin of these reforms was Bill Kelty and his stewardship of the ACTU.

I love how the far right just can't bring themselves to accept that the true free market was delivered by the Labor movement, both political and trade union based.

 

[boyo]

 

[boyo]

 

[boyo]

 

[Runner]

I couldn't agree more fatprop. This is why I see through the ideological union bashing smear crap. I don't think anybody disputes their are bad apples in a range of groups. I also think there are already the appropriate instruments at the disposal of criminal justice and law enforcement to deal with these bad apples.

Funny thing I find about union bashing is that we have a free and robust economy with 23 years of consecutive growth. It is a no brainer this stems from the economic reforms of the the 80's and 90's. Both Hawke and Keating have big enough egos to take the credit but the true linchpin of these reforms was Bill Kelty and his stewardship of the ACTU.

I love how the far right just can't bring themselves to accept that the true free market was delivered by the Labor movement, both political and trade union based.

The number of large unions involved here is a concern and although rumours etc have been around for a long time it has taken Royal Commissions to get results in the past. e.g. Remember the BLF and the Painters and Dockers.

Hawke and Keating both did well but Gillard took us back to 1996. Hawke and Keating also had the support of the Libs in parliament and ALP was not just a sub branch of the ACTU. They had members from a diverse set of backgrounds. Yes Kelty was the key ingredient. Bob Monkhouse in the Menzies era also made deals as Union leader with a Lib gov't.

The Gillard reforms are a number of backward steps so I wouldn't agree that a true free market has been delivered by the ALP. Don't look at market freedoms from the unions while the CFMEU still has ticket starts and election slush funds

 

[Ruggo]

The number of large unions involved here is a concern and although rumours etc have been around for a long time it has taken Royal Commissions to get results in the past. e.g. Remember the BLF and the Painters and Dockers.

Hawke and Keating both did well but Gillard took us back to 1996. Hawke and Keating also had the support of the Libs in parliament and ALP was not just a sub branch of the ACTU. They had members from a diverse set of backgrounds. Yes Kelty was the key ingredient. Bob Monkhouse in the Menzies era also made deals as Union leader with a Lib gov't.

The Gillard reforms are a number of backward steps so I wouldn't agree that a true free market has been delivered by the ALP. Don't look at market freedoms from the unions while the CFMEU still has ticket starts and election slush funds

Are you not forgetting somebody between those governments you mention? He kind of took the fruits of the accord, disregarded the players in those outstanding economic reforms, implemented his illogical far right ideology on IR.

I have no issue about Gillard taking IR back to 1996.

I completely disagree about the Royal Commission achieving any real outcomes. Where is the evidence to support your claim.

 

[fatprop]

Are you not forgetting somebody between those governments you mention? He kind of took the fruits of the accord, disregarded the players in those outstanding economic reforms, implemented his illogical far right ideology on IR.

I have no issue about Gillard taking IR back to 1996.

I completely disagree about the Royal Commission achieving any real outcomes. Where is the evidence to support your claim.

Too early to tell, it has only been going since March

But I do believe there are opportunities for IR reform, the world has changed, expectations have changed since the '80s and Hawke's accord.

And Workchoices wasn't all bad either

• The formation of a single national industrial relations system in relation to incorporated corporations, to replace the separate State and federal systems;
• Establishment of a body to be known as the Australian Fair Pay Commission, to decide minimum wages, in place of National Wage Cases at the Australian Industrial Relations Commission (AIRC);
• Streamlining of Certified Agreement and Australian Workplace Agreement making, including increasing the maximum life of agreements from three years to five years;
• A reduction in the number of "allowable matters", which could be covered by awards
• Creation of five minimum workplace conditions;
• Exemption of companies with fewer than 101 employees from unfair dismissal laws;
• Exemption of all companies from unfair dismissal laws, where a dismissal is for a bona fide operational reason;
• Increased restrictions on allowable industrial action;
• Mandating secret ballots for industrial action;
• Outlawing pattern bargaining and industry-wide industrial action.

There were issues, but there is need for workplace change if we want to employ more people, we need to have work place rules no longer centred on a 1950's world. I still remember the battle for shops to be open past 12 noon on a Saturday, let alone Sunday. Oh and my favourite, the dim sim allowance, when the entertainment centre in Sydney was first being built, the was a strike for more pay because the workers were getting too hungry because of the smells from chinatown, meh

Now that doesn't mean some of the extremes like 0 hour guarantee workplace contracts that are being used OS, but penalty rates and holiday loadings? Demarcation disputes? Minimum wages?

We don't live in a 9 to 5 world any more, nor in a world where people couldn't go on holidays because they weren't paid their weekly overtime (originally why the loading was introduced) but now politics insists that anything the Libs bring in is about "bringing back Workchoices"so the the Libs are hamstrung and need a Royal Commission to demonstrate the need for reform.

I expect to see a list of recommendation for reform at the end and the Libs to use some of the list to move forward.

 

[Runner]

May I also recommend reading Hancock and Hilmer review of IR Productivity upon which many of these changes where built

 

[Slim 293]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2014/sep/24/first-dog-terrorism?CMP=soc_567#

 

[Tex]

He's not far off a truth with that one.

 

[Pfitzy]

I was musing on facebook the other day about all the anti-Muslim shit that people are just spraying around social media. People I went to high school with who still don't live within 100km of a mosque or prayer centre of any kind that doesn't have a cross on it.

Fuck the ignorance just boils my piss.

Having said that, the sooner we execute a brilliant strategic eradication of ISIL/ISIS/IS/Daesh without occupying any part of the Mideast, the sooner the world will be a better place.

 

[fatprop]

I "like" the media campaign, it is so like a film script, first we have numerous scenes on how evil they are (kicked out of al-Qaeda for bring too extreme etc)

Now we get the weapon porn ......................
"Advanced F-22 Raptor stealth fighters have their first taste of combat in Syrian air strikes"

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle...rian-air-strikes/story-fnh81ifq-1227068790530

So we get to see "our" killings like video games, no videos of chopping heads for us, just anonymous "targeted" bombs taking out "facilities"with "clinical precision"

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle...-from-the-inside/story-fnh81ifq-1227068591344

 

[Braveheart81]

So we get to see "our" killings like video games, no videos of chopping heads for us, just anonymous "targeted" bombs taking out "facilities"with "clinical precision"

What do you think is more terrifying? An extremist beheading someone in the Syrian desert and posting the video on youtube or a person sitting in an office on the other side of the world being able to presss a button and blow someone/something up with incredible precision.

 

[matty_k]

I find them equally terrifying but in different ways.
The first is a more primal fear basically "That's not the way I want to go"
The second is because I'm afraid of the disassociation from humanity it seems to invoke.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^^ Shades of Colonel Nathan R. Jessup, USMC perhaps?

 

[Runner]

People will want the job done and don't always ask questions.

During WWII all happy Dresden was firebombed and 100,ooo killed if it shortened the war.

 

[fatprop]

Listened to this on the way to work, absolutely enthralling, a great insite into politics and why the current lot (on both sides) struggle to provide leadership/drag us towards their ideas

Jackanory Politics 21 Feb 2008

Thu, 21 Feb 08

Storytelling is an art that our politicians are keen to use on us. But are their stories getting in the way of making the right decisions? Frances Stonor Saunders finds that the desire for a dramatic narrative arc can sometimes lead us to ignore the humdrum but important facts. The programme includes an interview with the late Philip Gould. We hope you enjoy this programme - which we offer you while Analysis is off air.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/series/analysis/all

 

[fatprop]

People will want the job done and don't always ask questions.

During WWII all happy Dresden was firebombed and 100,ooo killed if it shortened the war.

well that is what the bombers/winners say