NZ Domestic Rugby Competitions 2016

[waiopehu oldboy]

Can someone tell Willie Lose there's no gate any more, even for the tackler.

Bay 5-0 & pussies lucky to have nil, as they say

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Ihaia West is such a good player at this level. Makes you wonder why he's so average at Super Rugby.

 

[Spieber]

WOB, I'm watching some pretty good rugby so far (which as ever is scary for an Aussie supporter). What sort of player retention rate are these teams getting from one season to the next - 60-70%?

 

[Forcefield]

Dave McDuling knocking about for Canterbury- I wonder if one of the Super Rugby sides will pick him up. Bit of a journeyman but a pretty solid lock. I know the Force are short a lock or two. Matt Philip over for Southland or Otago or something too.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

WOB, I'm watching some pretty good rugby so far (which as ever is scary for an Aussie supporter). What sort of player retention rate are these teams getting from one season to the next - 60-70%?

That would seem about right as an average. Counties had 11 on debut Thursday night, several others have 10 or 12 new players (albeit some are new to their province, not to this level per se), others as few as six.

 

[Spieber]

That would seem about right as an average. Counties had 11 on debut Thursday night, several others have 10 or 12 new players (albeit some are new to their province, not to this level per se), others as few as six.

In which case - more than scary!
Anyway good game underway.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

And my kiss of death remains strong: West with a coupla shockers, pussies looking the business & up 15-12. Auckland will surely win later tonight.....

 

[galumay]

And my kiss of death remains strong

So are you tipping the AB's by plenty tonite?!!

What do you think of the new laws, WoB? Seems to be a little hesitation at times from the players as they try to work out how the refs are interpreting it, but it really seems to be cleaning the breakdown up.

The focus on players staying on their feet is great as long as its consistently refereed.

I thought they were going to trial some score changes too, that must have got dropped for this season?

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Early days yet but, yes, lots of earned turnovers & counter-rucking so if the object is to restore the breakdown to being a contest, job done IMO.

Ref consistency will be the thing, they've really gotta stick to their guns & make sure the coaches & players get the message.

Points system got changed back, God knows when 'cos it wasn't on the website so consequently I look like a bit've a dick on the blog, but I'm told by @Dan54 that they'll be in effect for the HC from next week. I'm not a fan, I have to say, but we'll see what happens, I s'pose.

Wellington 36-26 Bay, five tries to four.

 

[Dan54]

I with you WOB, stuff changing the scoring, though as I said it early days I quite like the ELV around the ruck, it got players using their feet. I was talking to nephew over home a couple of weeks ago who is a senior ref, and can see what he was talking about, he said he tells players before every game just play the game on your feet and onside and the game will go well!! I think he been reffing these new rules. So not to bad

 

[galumay]

Points system got changed back, God knows when

Ok, thats why I was consfused, everything I had read I expected it to be implemented.

Early days but the Canterburians look to have this one under control - despite your KoD!

 

[zer0]

LOL. Tackles are becoming very soft these days.

 

[mst]

I am still not sold on the ELV's. It has a touch too much league about it (always on your feet and almost uncontested ball available after a tackle) which does change the essence of the game IMHO and I miss the breakdown contest. But i can see some positives and think it needs to meet in the middle of the old and new somehow.

I cringed on a few occasions where players had an opportunity to pilfer (on there feet with the clean out yet to arrive) under the old laws and they just had to pull out and back off.

The players using their feet is not new, but now is almost mandatory at every breakdown (it looks like soccer with the amount of players trying to kick the ball) so I am expecting a stray boot to cause major damage to a player or two. I can see a halfback getting a serious hand injury.

The other one I see is the ability to legally clear beyond the ruck. I can see this one being a big problem with the key element that is required under the ELV's is the clean out and pushing over the ball. This will make the obstruction rule irreverent at times IMHO especially close to the try line.

 

[galumay]

I cringed on a few occasions where players had an opportunity to pilfer (on there feet with the clean out yet to arrive) under the old laws and they just had to pull out and back off.

Can you explain that to me? As I understand it, under the ELVs the defending player can pilfer if he is on his feet and behind the offside line. What am I missing?

The players using their feet is not new, but now is almost mandatory at every breakdown (it looks like soccer with the amount of players trying to kick the ball) so I am expecting a stray boot to cause major damage to a player or two. I can see a halfback getting a serious hand injury.

I noticed the same, removing the killing of the ball by players from both sides lying all over the ruck, has opened up the ability to easily kick the ball clear - and the requirement to either play or pass the ball immediatley means its sitting there temptingly waiting to be punted downfield!

The other one I see is the ability to legally clear beyond the ruck. I can see this one being a big problem with the key element that is required under the ELV's is the clean out and pushing over the ball. This will make the obstruction rule irreverent at times IMHO especially close to the try line.

I think I get your point here, I guess it depends how its refereed, as I see it the ELVs encourage players to clean out while staying on their feet, ie walking over the ruck - i dont think that extends to taking out players not part of the ruck - if thats your point. Maybe I am misunderstanding you though? Not sure of what you mean about obstruction either?

EDIT - looking at the video I think I see what you mean about obstruction, but as long as the arriving attackers are oonly cleaning out players involved in the breakdown, and dont hang on to the defenders then onstruction shouldnt be an issue?

This is quite a good guide to the intent of the ELV's,

 

[mst]

Can you explain that to me? As I understand it, under the ELVs the defending player can pilfer if he is on his feet and behind the offside line. What am I missing?
Yeah, but I think this is to do with the offside line. So it is where the "contact in the tackle" occurs, so if you slip down the legs I am not sure if its the initial or last contact (does a higher tackle give you a better chance at a pilfer?). The other issue is being aware of where the contact is (too much doubt in players minds maybe?) and also can they reach the ball from behind the offside line (which is now subjective instead of being set) as players palace it back? (eg: a tackle around the ankles means you may have to reach the full length of a body and arms from behind the offside line which is impossible. So think of a 1 on 1 tackle off a break up field with no support from either team - you just stand there and wait for other players to turn up because you cant pilfer? )

I think I get your point here, I guess it depends how its refereed, as I see it the ELVs encourage players to clean out while staying on their feet, ie walking over the ruck - i dont think that extends to taking out players not part of the ruck - if thats your point. Maybe I am misunderstanding you though? Not sure of what you mean about obstruction either?
A few of the Northland players picked up on the fact that if you got to the ruck early, drove hard and through the ruck (as the ELV's encourage) you can drive an opponent past the ruck by several meters easily and legally. So the rule that was implemented to stop the cleanout beyond the ruck / taking players out / punching a hole or etc is now nullified by a hard charging quick arriving clean out pushing over and beyond the ball. So close to the line they can almost legally bulldoze a path to the line through the defence.

 

[galumay]

Thanks mst, that clarifies your thinking for me.

I guess we will have to watch for a few more weeks to see how both those issues resolve themselves - especially the issue of where the contact in the tackle is deemed to be. As you suggest it is even trickier with long runs out of broken play because its unlikely any refs will be in a position to make a judgement.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Early days but the Canterburians look to have this one under control - despite your KoD!

Yeah, I got dem D'Aucklanders a good one there! Had an inkling we'd win but, Jaysus, that was an old-fashioned ass stomping. Straya DEFIANTLY gunna win tonight.........

 

[Highlander35]

So many nice, classy, traditional Tops.

Then there's Otago v Southland

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

There's a Round 1 Wrap on the blog:

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/mitre-10-cup-2016-week-1-wrap/#disqus_thread

@ozee will be doing next week & I know he's keen to delve a bit further into the ELV's, looking forward to that.

Heartland kicks off this week, too (all matches Saturday afternoon):

Thames Valley v Horowhenua-Kapiti, Paeroa
Wairarapa-Bush v King Country, Masterton
Wanganui v West Coast, Whanganui
Mid Canterbury v North Otago, Ashburton
Poverty Bay v East Coast, Gisborne
South Canterbury v Buller, Timaru

After eight Rounds the top four teams will contest the Meads Cup (currently held by Wanganui) and teams 5-8 the Lochore Cup (currently held by King Country). In November a Heartland XV will play at least one match against an Australian Barbarians side made up of NRC players who aren't contracted to a Super Rugby franchise. Date(s) and venue(s) are yet to be finalised.

I was going to include Heartland on the blog but had second thoughts on account of it being of limited interest to most on here. I'll be posting results etc here, tho, & scouring YouTube etc for vids.

 

[ikaletahi]

I really hope those Otago and Southland jerseys were a one-off because they were horrible! They make the mid-90s Auckland jerseys look good