2017 Under-20 Competitions including Oceania & World U20s

[Moonrat]

Yeah, its bloody tricky though isnt it?
It happens in a split second and momentum plays a part.
Its a challenge for the modern day coaches.
No wonder so many teach to tackle higher now when executing a front on tackle.

Can't agree its tricky. Everyone who's played knows its a choice to lift. Truth is there is no benefit to a lift tackle as it give the opposition more chance to get to the tackled player in support. For me its an ego thing!

Anyway I thoroughly enjoyed the game. The boys played real well.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

No wonder so many teach to tackle higher now when executing a front on tackle.

Thats got to be removed form the abattoir (as KB (Kurtley Beale) would say) because of the inevitable risk of incidental contact with the head.
The only solution is the old fashioned grass cutter - a side effect of which could be better rugby because of easier continuity and less successful pilfering.

 

[hammertimethere]

I think an important thing to note is that in situations like this, they CAN be better for it next time around, but this is not guaranteed.

There's certainly a component of self learning in it as the next time the boys are defending a close lead they'll know what did, and didn't, work last time but I also think there has to be an institutional element to it lest we create or enable a losing culture.

I work within the startup field and all high growth tech young companies (or however you want to define a startup) that go through accelerator or incubator programs, or receive VC investment, are given mentors to protect the developing companies against the mistakes of those who walked before them.

Could something like this work for the u20s?

Could this years leadership team be parachuted into next years camp?

If even only for one night, it could be structured something like this:

5pm: arrival and each member of the leadership team mingles with their respective position / unit (eg backline/forward pack).

5.30pm: the leadership team presents on their own journey through the last u20 RWC, what they learnt, the standards required and the highs / lows of their experience. They could also hand out email addresses or phone numbers for the players to direct any future questions to.

6pm: dinner with the team.

7pm: video analysis of moments that defined their RWC. For instance this years lads could watch the second half and advise where they went wrong and how future teams could learn from that.

It'd be relatively cheap and informal yet would serve to create a "fraternity" around the team and hopefully inspire the u20s lads about how close they are to professional footy / higher levels (eg if Tuipolotu and Perese returned next year they have that Super experience under their belt to speak from).

I fucking hate typing on my iPhone but hopefully you know what I mean.

That's a terrific idea

 

[Highlander35]

Having now watched the game, it was a pretty damn impressive performance.

Particularly from a side missing at the very least Rob Leota, Jack Maddocks, Theo Strang and Jack McGregor.

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[sidelineview]

Thats got to be removed form the abattoir (as KB (Kurtley Beale) would say) because of the inevitable risk of incidental contact with the head.
The only solution is the old fashioned grass cutter - a side effect of which could be better rugby because of easier continuity and less successful pilfering.

A front on grasscutter? No they dont work. The problems with tackling exist for rugby and league. Players can get hurt tackling low front on and get pinged for lifting, intentional or unintentional.
Front on ball and all tackles are popular now.

Anyway i feel for the big fella. It just looked like a good hard tackle in real speed. He may have to use the pull out method in future which isnt always foolproof.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The lads played superbly this morning.

But i'll leave with this photo for a 'try' that was incredibly awarded by an English TMO. Possibly one of the worst tmo decisions iv ever seen and basically deprived the young guys the chance of making the finals.

View attachment 9338

Looking at that I have to say. I cannot see any part of the English lads leg touching the ground which suggests that it apparently looks to be one hell of a try. Which sucks for our boys.

Edit: Just watched the highlights. It was a try. He got it done just before his knee hit.

 

[pissedoffihavetoregister]

Thats true.
In the good old days that tackle would have been applauded as a great tackle. It was a dominant tackle which is what you want to see.
And it wasnt that much above the horizontal.

So how do coaches teach players now to avoid being carded for a strong head on tackle?
Should the player drive his legs forward and therefore drive the attacking player backwards? It happens quickly.
It would interesting to hear about it from a coachs point of view.

The trouble is the person being tackled can make it look bad (by bending at the waist and pointing their upper body down to the ground) .

The tackler has no control over this.

It is often the tacked person taking advantage of this to gain a penalty/yellow card.

Bloody stupid tackle tho which cost us possibly the series. No one else looks capable of stopping the dark ones.

 

[sidelineview]

I dont think the tackle was the game changer.
As much as im reluctant to be critical of young players particularly under high pressure situations, the game changer for mine was when the scrum half kicked out on the full from a scrum before the infamous tackle.
It gave England field position and one mistake or penalty from there .....

 

[Highlander35]

About 4 excellent opportunities turned down for a drop goal in red time too.

Stewart's​ call? Nuciforia's call? Captain's call? Coach's call?

Either way, an 8ishm pass straight back, and a 32m drop goal straight in front should be executed 9/10 times by a competent halves pair.

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[sidelineview]

About 4 excellent opportunities turned down for a drop goal in red time too.

Stewart's​ call? Nuciforia's call? Captain's call? Coach's call?

Either way, an 8ishm pass straight back, and a 32m drop goal straight in front should be executed 9/10 times by a competent halves pair.

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Pressure and fatigue produce mistakes. I would have thought it was the 10s call.
Anyway they took the wrong option and will no doubt have some nightmares over it.
Live and learn.
It was easy for me to make decisions while laying on my lounge.

 

[Braveheart81]

The trouble is the person being tackled can make it look bad (by bending at the waist and pointing their upper body down to the ground) .

The tackler has no control over this.

It is often the tacked person taking advantage of this to gain a penalty/yellow card.

Bloody stupid tackle tho which cost us possibly the series. No one else looks capable of stopping the dark ones.

The tackler has control over whether they lift the player off the ground to begin with.

That's where they went wrong.

 

[RugbyReg]

Pressure and fatigue produces mistakes. I would have thought it was the 10s call.
Anyway they took the wrong option and will no doubt have some nightmares over it.
Live and learn.
It was easy for me to make decisions while laying on my lounge.

also goes back to an issue TOCC has raised for a while. Stewart has played bugger all football of late. Game management comes from playing games. He would have perhaps been better served playing club rugby rather than sitting on the bench for the Reds.

 

[TOCC]

also goes back to an issue TOCC has raised for a while. Stewart has played bugger all football of late. Game management comes from playing games. He would have perhaps been better served playing club rugby rather than sitting on the bench for the Reds.

Yep the boys played admirably, really ought to have won it, but nerves and jitters from not playing much rugby in the past 3 months wouldn't have helped decision making in the crucial stages.

Englands system is far better structured then Australias, which just goes to show how talented this Australian group is to compete with a team which has had an almost perfect 12 months of club rugby, 6 Nationa and development camps leading into this tournament.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

A front on grasscutter? No they dont work

There remains an art in positioning the ball carrier - they call it tracking now but that does not do justice to the ability of the defender to manipulate the attacker.

 

[Rugby follower]

That has to be one of the best games I have seen any Australian side play in a number of years. The skill level was far above the 2016 U20 team and well above any Aussie super rugby side this year. The basics were done extremely well, what you expect from a Kiwi side. So well done to the coaching staff and to the players, just a really unfortunate ending to the game. Will the wheel start to turn when these players mature into senior players?

 

[todd4]

Agree that the English try looked good. A great effort by the English winger. Don't think the YC was the deciding factor. We had plenty of chances. Thought Goddard had a good game. Hindsight is wonderful, so I wonder why they replace a scrumhalf who seems to be in the zone. Pressure is then on replacement to step up & Nucifora made a number of errors. Can't blame one person for the loss though, it was always going to be tough beating England. It was puzzling at the end though with Stewart standing back looking like he was positioning himself for a drop goal but Nucifora just ignoring him, was Stewart not calling for it or was he just waiting, waiting, waiting for an easier shot? Very entertaining game though, well done lads.

 

[kiap]

He would have perhaps been better served playing club rugby rather than sitting on the bench for the Reds.

Maybe so but that only addresses part of the problem.

As per Ben Darwin, team success is built not only through time on the park, but through time spent in games developing team and player combinations.

There are ways to do this, and relatively economically.

But like many things in rugby, people are satisfied with mediocrity.

They prefer methods that have been tried before and which "just need repeating" to eventually turn up success instead of failure.

 

[moa999]

A great game. And hope the boys learn from it.

Had Australia won, would have been very hard luck for France who would have been beaten into 4th place by England despite not losing a game (they drew with SA)

 

[TOCC]

Maybe so but that only addresses part of the problem.

As per Ben Darwin, team success is built not only through time on the park, but through time spent in games developing team and player combinations.

There are ways to do this, and relatively economically.

But like many things in rugby, people are satisfied with mediocrity.

They prefer methods that have been tried before and which "just need repeating" to eventually turn up success instead of failure.

Ben Darwins theory has some merit, but at the end of the day it is just a theory. In regards to these players, they are still in their formative years as rugby union players, getting them together and forming them as a cohesive unit is pivotal, but not at the expense of them continuing their onfield Rugby Union development IMO.

Perhaps in later years when they have more experience the annual need for game time reduces and shift to a greater focus on the training paddock, but I believe in the 16-20yr old age bracket, the best development is actually playing bulk rugby.

 

[kiap]

Ben Darwins theory has some merit, but at the end of the day it is just a theory.

So is Charles Darwin's theory.

Ben's idea is very simple. Have players with experience playing together when you select them to run out in competition. The more cohesion they have, the better.

He has compiled evidence for it, but most know this intuitively anyway.

This is not rocket surgery and can be applied, within reason, to improve our teams. It should be used.