3rd tier is back in 2014 [Discontinued]

[Train Without a Station]

Gibbo,

That's all well and good.

Tell me how that works when 90% of the contracted players already live in Brisbane? Which region does the team cover? Where do they play? Who covers the players living expenses living away from their city home? Who pays the additional travel costs required?

The Cowboys work in Townsville in isolation from Brisbane, with a team in a 24 week competition. This is completely different. Most importantly the concept is to utilise existing team infrastructure, etc. and not re-invent the wheel.

 

[Dave Beat]

Gibbo,

That's all well and good.

Tell me how that works when 90% of the contracted players already live in Brisbane? Which region does the team cover? Where do they play? Who covers the players living expenses living away from their city home? Who pays the additional travel costs required?

The Cowboys work in Townsville in isolation from Brisbane, with a team in a 24 week competition. This is completely different. Most importantly the concept is to utilise existing team infrastructure, etc. and not re-invent the wheel.

That is a fair question, How many of the Reds are left over after the Wallabies have selected 30? - I'm not sure.

Then divide that by 2 teams in QLD how many Reds players each does each team get.

Some one raised a silly question, wouldn't it be sill playing against your own players. With 5 NSW teams and 2 in QLD - please tell me how are we going to prevent Reds players playing against each other when the 2 QLD teams meet / same goes for NSW.

You've raised a really good question - but maybe it will work.

I still don't think VIC, & WA should be able to field there Super 15 team, allowing them 15 provides a quality starting team but also ensures development - I like it.

 

[RugbyFuture]

this is still all very speculative.
the ONLY certainties are teams from melbourne, perth, canberra and two from queensland. the actual makeup and playing personnel is probably a long way off being settled. i don't know the SS well enough to give an accurate appraisal but can sydney/nsw really sustain 5 teams, i'm talking financing not playing numbers

The Sydney teams aren't being centrally funded and will only be accepted if they're independently financed.

 

[swingpass]

The Sydney teams aren't being centrally funded and will only be accepted if they're independently financed.

my point exactly, show me the money !

 

[Train Without a Station]

Dave,

If they equally spread the talent, the Perth and Melbourne teams will be at the bottom of the ladder.

Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra have much stronger comps to draw from. Even with more teams.

As a Reds fan living in Melbourne, I'm not sure who I'd support. But I'd rather see the Force and Melbourne have a leg up than be left to struggle.

Recruitment from Bris and Syd will be minimal to these teams as relocation is too much of an issue so they are solely reliant on building from their substandard comps. With the introduction of the Force and the Rebels and then introduction of their players into these comps, the standard is getting better.

Having their teams get the shit hammered out of them each week will surely not help rugby interest in these areas and assist in improving these comps through higher participation.

 

[Dave Beat]

Dave,

If they equally spread the talent, the Perth and Melbourne teams will be at the bottom of the ladder.

Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra have much stronger comps to draw from. Even with more teams.

At the moment the media has put it out there, for all we know it maybe just to sell papers and create chat and ideas on GAGR.

So a Vic side being represented by the best 15 they choose from the Rebels who have been training together since Pre Christmas, and playing at professional level since the first weekend of Feb.
V
North Harbor from NSW who up until August have been playing against each other, and then have to form a team with returning Super Players.

Who would be the stronger team????

Here's another interest one, are Sydney Uni only allowed 15 players and then have to share out their surplus Super Talent?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Sydney Uni should be able to use any of their club players too.

This is becoming an issue because of the ludicrous decision to make it 10 teams.

I've said it before and I will say it again. If the ITM Cup and Currie Cup can only have 8 or less teams in order to ensure a quality competition, how can we think we need 10 straight off the bat?

 

[Dave Beat]

Sydney Uni should be able to use any of their club players too.

This is becoming an issue because of the ludicrous decision to make it 10 teams.

I've said it before and I will say it again. If the ITM Cup and Currie Cup can only have 8 or less teams in order to ensure a quality competition, how can we think we need 10 straight off the bat?

Uni - the way it reads each NRC team is allowed 15 contracted players, or does that relate to WA, VIC, and ACT only?
I thought 8 as well, can live with 10. But i had thought 4 NSW, 3 QLD, I hought that was a better spread.

 

[Train Without a Station]

As to your comment Dave. With 5 teams in Sydney, undoubtedly the Rebels/Force would be stronger.

The Canberra team would be too. But due to their likely higher Wallaby representation, this would balance out a lot. What would benefit them is their wider training group of JID players. Sydney 3T teams should be trying to do this too though.

 

[TOCC]

Gibbo,

That's all well and good.

Tell me how that works when 90% of the contracted players already live in Brisbane? Which region does the team cover? Where do they play? Who covers the players living expenses living away from their city home? Who pays the additional travel costs required?

The Cowboys work in Townsville in isolation from Brisbane, with a team in a 24 week competition. This is completely different. Most importantly the concept is to utilise existing team infrastructure, etc. and not re-invent the wheel.

For definition stakes 'Queensland Country' is everything outside of Brisbane City but to be realistic/practical its only going to be the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast and Toowoomba, this represents nearly 900'000 people within 90min of Brisbane and as a team they have played another of times over the years so its not exactly a new concept.

As you say, logistically its not feasible to have it based in one of these localities so I wouldn't be surprised if the team retains a training base in Brisbane, say at Sunnybank or somewhere like that. Rumour has it they plan on playing at Bond University's new field but it might be possible they move a home game to Toowoomba or Sunshine Coast as well.

Apart from travelling down to the Gold Coast to play a game every second Saturday i think the whole concept could be kept pretty simple in logistical terms.

 

[RugbyFuture]

my point exactly, show me the money !

I think you'll have to wait for sponsors to be announced, but the teams wouldn't be allowed in without a firm financial footing. There's plenty of industry and money in Sydney for sub Super level teams

 

[Train Without a Station]

It works as a representative concept yes, based on where players are playing. But even still those games are often played in front of 2 men and a dog.

Can't see "country" people getting excited about a team of allocated city boys playing out of Bond Uni.

You cannot have a pure "Country" team in a comp like this and it be workable because the players would not be up to the standard. I don't like the concept of manufacturing/half arsing it.

 

[TOCC]

This issue will have a lot of bearing on the success or otherwise of the NRC I believe, but it is difficult to see how it can be resolved to the greater benefit.


I don't think an arbitrary sharing of the resources by the ARU is the way to go, but I can also see that concentrating the better resources (players) in 2 or 3 of the NRC teams will not benefit the competition as a whole. Perhaps the way to go is for each franchise to nominate their 18 contracted players to be retained, and it is left to the remaining individuals to negotiate their own solution with other teams, or to sit out the comp if they can't otherwise get a suitable gig. Not sure how the Brumbies would handle these matters if Canberra enter two teams, but I guess that's not likely to happen in the early stages, but Brisbane could be in a similar situation as well, sharing the current contracted players between two teams.

What we need to remember is that this competition is a development tool for Super Rugby and the Wallabies, so with that in mind i would tend to think that many of the Super Rugby coaches would want their players getting as much game time as possible.

I have already used the Burgess/Stirzaker as an example in the Rebels thread but it translates to any number of other positions and players from various teams. Say for example Burgess is the preferred halfback for the Melbourne NRC team(assuming no wallaby call-up), wouldn't it be in the best interest of the Rebels and Stirzaker for him to go to a team where he is guaranteed a starting position rather then sitting on the bench for 70min each game.

I can't see it been much of an issue in Brisbane, once you remove the Wallabies and split the team in two its going to be around 12-15 players for each team anyway. Brumbies likewise, once you remove the Wallabies there will only be a few remaining, but the obvious issue will be with the Rebels and Force where there is going to be upwards of 25 players remaining.

 

[Train Without a Station]

TOCC it would not be at all prudent for the franchises to warehouse talent would it?

Allowing loaning would prevent this as teams would not keep players just in case of injury.

 

[TOCC]

It works as a representative concept yes, based on where players are playing. But even still those games are often played in front of 2 men and a dog.

Can't see "country" people getting excited about a team of allocated city boys playing out of Bond Uni.

You cannot have a pure "Country" team in a comp like this and it be workable because the players would not be up to the standard. I don't like the concept of manufacturing/half arsing it.

I lived in Toowoomba for 4 years and played for the Darling Downs side one of those years, and to be fair, most people won't care if the team is based at Bond University or wherever, if a game comes to Toowoomba they will be happy to go watch it because its rare any form of top level sport comes to Toowoomba, and since the Clydesdales ceased a number of years ago there aren't any teams which really represent the region which play on a regular basis. As for the crowds, well i can assure you whilst fans weren't pouring through the gates, we always managed to pull a pretty decent crowd.

Im not sure what concept people have of "country" people, but a farmer and his cattle dog are not the only people you find in Toowoomba and rural Queensland, there are those who have attended university, those who grew up in the "Big City" of Brisbane/Sydney/Melbourne, many of those "country" folk do make it down to Brisbane/Gold Coast on a regular basis for nights out or to watch the Reds. I did the drive a many of times with some team mates, we would finish our game on a Saturday, shower/change and race down to Ipswich where we would jump on the train and make it to Suncorp just in time for kickoff.

Don't get me wrong, i personally would have preferred a Brisbane South/North split, but i still think there will be strong support for a Country Team...

 

[TOCC]

TOCC it would not be at all prudent for the franchises to warehouse talent would it?

Allowing loaning would prevent this as teams would not keep players just in case of injury.

I don't quite understand the first part of this comment, what is the question?
Isn't that what we are talking about already? Im saying warehousing players for the NRC, a development competition is contrary to the reason of the competitions inception.

 

[Train Without a Station]

No not at all. In regards to 3T. Super Rugby Franchises like the Rebels and the Force benefit from their players playing in it due to the superior player development like you mentioned. Warehousing a 3rd choice Super Rugby squad player will not challenge him or develop him to a level where he will be more valuable to them if they need him in Super Rugby. I was just agreeing and saying I thought any Super Rugby teams running a 3T team would want their players getting as much game time as possible. If that's not possible with them, then with others.

If there was a loan system, where if injuries occurred they could recall these players back to their time, I'm sure this would enable this greatly.

 

[TOCC]

No not at all. In regards to 3T. Super Rugby Franchises like the Rebels and the Force benefit from their players playing in it due to the superior player development like you mentioned. Warehousing a 3rd choice Super Rugby squad player will not challenge him or develop him to a level where he will be more valuable to them if they need him in Super Rugby. I was just agreeing and saying I thought any Super Rugby teams running a 3T team would want their players getting as much game time as possible. If that's not possible with them, then with others.

If there was a loan system, where if injuries occurred they could recall these players back to their time, I'm sure this would enable this greatly.

Oh ok sorry lol....

I guess a loan system could work as well, but it would be a kick in the nuts of the receiving team if say the Melbourne/Perth team recalls one or two of their players a week before an important game or something like that.

I think it would have to be for the length of the season to ensure consistency,

 

[Train Without a Station]

Probably creates too many issues. Perhaps the best option would be for the ARU/NRC to say Perth/Melbourne. Pick your top 23 contracted players. All others will be available to other teams.

Forces the issue but gets the smaller markets their best possible team, doesn't leave players languishing in training squads, prevents the smaller teams from having too strong a total squad, but gives them the strength to be able to overcome the fact that their non-contracted players will likely be inferior to those in Sydney and Brisbane due to their stronger comps.

 

[tigerland12]

If you think country teams don't work have a look at a lot of the season ticket holders for the NQ Cowboys. Members travel hours every second week to Townsville religously. This is for a created team that had no 'brand' or traditional background.
They are financially sound and backed by wealth from the country. Don't knock the regional models.

I think a better comparison would be the NQ Fury and Gold Coast Unitied A-League.

League has always had a strong foothold in NQ, where Union (and soccer) have a lot less of a market.

Even with big financial backing, player personnel and bums on seats for the country teams would be a disaster.

A Brisbane North and Brisbane South make the most sense, so I have no idea why the QRU isn't backing that model. First they squeeze the life out of clubs through this Junior Gold program and higher registration fees, and now this?