ACT John I Dent Cup Grand Final - Vikings v Queanbeyan

[Slim 293]

The two powerhouses of ACT rugby - the Tuggeranong Vikings and Queanbeyan Whites - go head to head in this weekends John I Dent Cup grand final.

Glen Christini will be looking to coach the Vikings to his 4th straight John I Dent Cup after coaching Queanbeyan to back to back victories in 2007 and 2008, then coaching Vikings to a win over his old club last year.

Next year he'll be moving on up to the Shute Shield to hopefully bring the same success to Parramatta.

There will be a number of Super 15 (and future Wallaby) players on show with Julian Salvi, Colby Fainga'a, Francis Fainifo and Phoenix Battye coming out for Vikings along with Nic White and Robbie Coleman for the Whites.

I wish I could be there to see it!

 

[en_force_er]

With that many players of that quality it almost sounds like those teams would be Shute Shield competitive.

Is the ACT league close to Sydney standard or are those two teams just ridiculously far ahead of their opposition?

 

[en_force_er]

I think if ACT was to enter the Shute Shield it would have to be with 2 sides instead of one (along with 2 associated Colts sides). Perhaps they could be Queanbeyan and Canberra or East and West ACT, I don't know but that isn't the point.

The advantages would be plentiful:
You'd get more ACT products, or at least players residing in the ACT, playing in the ACT at the highest possible non-S15 level.

• You'd be able to access these players' merrits not only against other quality Shute Shield players but twice a season against each other.
• It would make Canberra a more attractive place for people from the smaller unions (Victoria and WA) to develop their rugby.
• It would make sure the Brumbie academy players and Brumbies not in the 22 could play without leaving the ACT.

There would also be a few disadvantages:

• Added cost, but if a few ACT teams used to play in the Waratah shield surely this wouldn't be THAT incomprehensible.
• Is their enough quality players in the ACT for 2 sides? If there isn't I'm sure they could use the prospect of opportunity to entice others over.

But then again, I'm not someone in the know about ACT rugby.

 

[lily]

There are some very good points there. There should be enough depth to send up a colts side also, The Brumbies colts this year only played 1 game but they easily accounted for NSW Country. There are alot of Colts eligible players running around in 1st and 2nd grade though, as the Colts comp isn't all that great. There was traditionally been a number of Victorians each season moving to Canberra to try and pursue a chance in Rugby. This may dry up know though with the Rebels coming through.

There are rumours that part of the big reason they got kicked out of the Shute Shield was teams not liking traveling to Canberra. It is only 3 hours, but i guess people will get annoyed going that distance to possible lose.

Im not sure that if there is a chance of 2 sides, but maybe if they were to have 2 they could snatch players from nearby Wagga, Goulburn, South Coast, Griffith to have a more regional ACT side?

The travel was an issue but 2 other things possibly more so.
1. They couldn't field 4 grade and 3 colts teams.
2. Why should an NSWRU competition be used as a development tool for Brumbies rugby. Let them develop their own competition.
Same goes for the Waratah Shield.

 

[lily]

I think if ACT was to enter the Shute Shield it would have to be with 2 sides instead of one (along with 2 associated Colts sides). Perhaps they could be Queanbeyan and Canberra or East and West ACT, I don't know but that isn't the point.

The advantages would be plentiful:
You'd get more ACT products, or at least players residing in the ACT, playing in the ACT at the highest possible non-S15 level.

• You'd be able to access these players' merrits not only against other quality Shute Shield players but twice a season against each other.
• It would make Canberra a more attractive place for people from the smaller unions (Victoria and WA) to develop their rugby.
• It would make sure the Brumbie academy players and Brumbies not in the 22 could play without leaving the ACT.

There would also be a few disadvantages:

• Added cost, but if a few ACT teams used to play in the Waratah shield surely this wouldn't be THAT incomprehensible.
• Is their enough quality players in the ACT for 2 sides? If there isn't I'm sure they could use the prospect of opportunity to entice others over.

But then again, I'm not someone in the know about ACT rugby.

is it me or does the first and second quote by en_force_er differ in style. First one sounds like he is unaware whereas the second he gives a plan and multiple ideas. Agenda driven perhaps?

 

[en_force_er]

The travel was an issue but 2 other things possibly more so.
1. They couldn't field 4 grade and 3 colts teams.
2. Why should an NSWRU competition be used as a development tool for Brumbies rugby. Let them develop their own competition.
Same goes for the Waratah Shield.

Their structure would have to be similar to the Sunshine Coast/Gold Coast in the Brisbane comp so that their own state league isn't compromised.
Why shouldn't the NSWRU competition be used as a development tool for AUSTRALIAN rugby? That means ACT as well. They tout themselves as the 3rd tear and a 3 hour drive shouldn't be an obstacle for semi-professional players. Obviously 2nd-4th grade and colts 2nds/3rds need not travel.
Perhaps the ACT teams could compromise by having half their home games on neutral ground? I mean it would be a bit much to ask Penrith and Paramatta who don't have the dollars to bus/fly down to Canberra.

is it me or does the first and second quote by en_force_er differ in style. First one sounds like he is unaware whereas the second he gives a plan and multiple ideas. Agenda driven perhaps?

... I've never lived nor played anywhere but Victoria. Your conspiracy theory has thoroughly pissed me off.

 

[nathan]

I don't see why it would be such an issue. Currently reserve grade Sydney Swans play in Canberra's AFL league due to it's professional structure and competitiveness. If they're prepared to travel down almost every weekend, why shouldn't Sydney clubs once or twice a year? It's the Canberra clubs that would be traveling and ACTRU would have the cash.

I'd only imagine it'd benefit Australian Rugby.

 

[Slim 293]

The travel was an issue but 2 other things possibly more so.
1. They couldn't field 4 grade and 3 colts teams.
2. Why should an NSWRU competition be used as a development tool for Brumbies rugby. Let them develop their own competition.
Same goes for the Waratah Shield.

Well, since the Sydney clubs go out of their way to halt Australia's need for a third tier competition I don't see why they wouldn't want to strengthen their own competition by adding one or two ACT based sides...

As for the travel, it would be the Canberra teams doing most of it and the ACTRU would be happy to fork out the money...

And it's not just helping Brumbies rugby as some of these ACT based players (such as Battye) get poached by other teams...

There are already a number of Canberra players running around in the Shute Shield only because it's a bigger competition that gains more exposure...

It would be a win win for everyone.

Anyways, with Christini going on to coach Parramatta next year I wouldn't be surprised if they became real contenders as he's a great coach and I wouldn't be surprised to see a number of good Canberra players follow him there.

 

[lily]

I don't see why it would be such an issue. Currently reserve grade Sydney Swans play in Canberra's AFL league due to it's professional structure and competitiveness. If they're prepared to travel down almost every weekend, why shouldn't Sydney clubs once or twice a year? It's the Canberra clubs that would be traveling and ACTRU would have the cash.

I'd only imagine it'd benefit Australian Rugby.

Remember that playing club rugby in Sydney does not give players alot of coin so once again travel is an issue. This was the same as the ARC. All this stuff about benefitting Australian Rugby is true but the NSWRU dont care about that they rightly or wrongly only care about NSW rugby.

 

[en_force_er]

Remember that playing club rugby in Sydney does not give players alot of coin so once again travel is an issue. This was the same as the ARC. All this stuff about benefitting Australian Rugby is true but the NSWRU dont care about that they rightly or wrongly only care about NSW rugby.

Travel cost is an issue for the clubs, not the players individually.

I'm sure the club wouldn't expect their elite playing group (1sts and 1sts Colts) to pay to get their way too or from Canberra.

 

[Brumby Jack]

The issues raised are interesting ones. The problems are this:

The Vikings are by far the most financially stable club in Canberra with a group of 5 licensed clubs. Every other club in Canberra has at some stage over the years been in a dire financial situation and basically on the brink of folding. That said, along with the ARC and any ideas of a team going to Sydney, the Vikings are the only possible club to be able to do it due to the financial costs. As they are bank rolling these things they want any team to have the name 'Vikings' somewhere in there. They will only commit to entering a team into Sydney if a long term plan is in place and not a year to year basis.
So based on that, I can't see 2 teams from Canberra entering into the Sydney comp.

Unfortunately this issue has been on going for at least 15 years since the Kookaburras made their way into the Sydney comp in 1995 and there really hasn't been a suitable agreement in that time. Regarding travel, I believe that in the past the cost was picked up by the Vikings when teams came to Canberra.

Back to the Grand Final, Queanbeyan fans are up in arms about the banning of chainsaws (without the teeth-which some claim are like the user) and utes with mattresses in tray that were used for smuggling in beer to last years GF. Maybe they need a tip from the Pulp Sport boys: [video=youtube;62ryZsA9Es4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62ryZsA9Es4[/video]

The winner of the Grand Final will play University from Brisbane Club Rugby on Sunday September 19 in Canberra and apparently the Sydney Club comp winner at a later date.

 

[en_force_er]

Well with my theory of 2 sides I was presuming that two Canberra based rep sides would be formed especially and bankrolled for the ACTRU, having a club step up individually would only erode the ACT competition and ensure ALL the decent players head over to 1 club.

 

[AussieDominance]

Most of the decent players residing in Canberra play in Sydney anyway. What's the point of the NSW Rugby Union(now to become the Sydney Rugby Union next season) supporting Brumbies Rugby by allowing them to play as an individual team.

 

[lily]

Travel cost is an issue for the clubs, not the players individually.

I'm sure the club wouldn't expect their elite playing group (1sts and 1sts Colts) to pay to get their way too or from Canberra.

What I meant was that any costs I'm sure would end up coming out of the players budget.

 

[en_force_er]

Surely though they'd take it for the opportunity to actually go somewhere with their rugger.

 

[Slim 293]

Most of the decent players residing in Canberra play in Sydney anyway. What's the point of the NSW Rugby Union(now to become the Sydney Rugby Union next season) supporting Brumbies Rugby by allowing them to play as an individual team.

I think this has already been covered...

And there is quite a number of players in the Canberra comp. who would run onto the starting XV of most Sydney club teams...

 

[AussieDominance]

Surely though they'd take it for the opportunity to actually go somewhere with their rugger.

Go somewhere? By playing one game a season in Canberra?

 

[Slim 293]

Go somewhere? By playing one game a season in Canberra?

I guess Gordon fans don't want to see their team lose any more games?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

snip....

Back to the Grand Final, Queanbeyan fans are up in arms about the banning of chainsaws (without the teeth-which some claim are like the user) and utes with mattresses in tray that were used for smuggling in beer to last years GF.....

.

Boo Hiss. Bloody Killjoys.

All power to the ferals!

 

[pitbull]

On the topic of Vikings, word is a certain sydney hooker is filling their 1st grade hooker spot next year...any guesses?