Scarfman
Knitter of the Scarf
You have a better sense of the absurd than me, Gags. It had me wanting to van Zyl him in the small of the back.
All Blacks - From Pillars to Stonewalls
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You have a better sense of the absurd than me, Gags. It had me wanting to van Zyl him in the small of the back.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
While the Higgers effort isn't at a ruck it is related, indirectly, to the point you are making in that he's not really bound (as he only uses his hands as opposed to his arms to the shoulder being in contact) and he is, at least, semi detached ahead of the ball.
You know, I could easily have a conversation (like this thread) about tactics - nefarious and otherwise - that players like McCaw employ better and more often than anyone else.
The problem happens when you then get people turning themselves inside out to deny it, defend it and then sanctify it.
Fark, just admit and discuss it like grown ups and like the coaches and players do. Leave another moralistic thread as to whether doing those things are right (pushing the boundaries) or wrong (cheating).
Blue
Andrew Slack (58)
Clearly you did not read the initial post properly nor the rest of the follow up.
I am suggesting the All Blacks employ this tactic more frequently and with more purpose than other teams. Until proven wrong that is what I believe.
There is no need to be defensive. Nowhere did I or anyone else in this thread suggest that other teams don't do this.
Welcome to the forum. Take in some of the scenery, get a feel for the tone, and hopefully make some meaningful contributions.
Everyone is welcome. Look, even rabid one-eyed late-charging tip-tackling head-butting boers like me.
Dam0
Dave Cowper (27)
To be fair I don't think that was the intention this time.
There are legitimate concerns about what is acceptable at the breakdown. Furthermore, in NZ we have a style/method at the breakdown, particularly at ruck time, that is different to other countries, especially in Australia.
I suspect that if you compared what is taught to 12 year olds in NZ as being expert ruck technique (ie ignore the ball completely and keep driving and fighting until the whole other pack is lying disintegrated on the ground with a few sprig marks on their back) to what is taught to Australian or English 12 year olds you might be surprised. Adding to this, refereeing approaches (from community level to Test level) as to what is acceptable "past the ball" DO vary from country to country.
All that being said, I do think that the case presented in Blue's original post is yet to be made.
Roundawhile
Billy Sheehan (19)
Can it get any more obvious than this?
This I think is from clip #2
Dam0
Dave Cowper (27)
Yeah, clip 2. I think everyone has agreed that should have been a penalty.
They have split off from the maul, possibly they take a few seconds to realise this and they look a bit foolish - hence the amusing name of the video. I don't think its automatically a penalty, but a couple of seconds after your freeze frame they 'accidentally-on-purpose' get in the way of Blue 1 who is trying to get across to tackle A Smith. Even that is a bit marginal, but a more observant AR would have picked it up, particularly if Smith had made it over for a try.
Dam0
Dave Cowper (27)
I look forward to it. It does not help that all the evidence thus far has been presented by the attorney for the defence.
He wasn't.
Edit: Allow me to rephrase, this seems to have caused offence - I don't believe the theory that there is a concious attempt to bend the rules/cheat is valid.
whatty
Bob Loudon (25)
Good grief! The irony.
No, it has been a pretty civil and quite legitimate discussion about tactics that are seen in quite a few games, and which, in some instances, seem questionable.
The scope has been broadened to include examples form others, as it should.
Should we never discuss interesting tactics or matters of rugby law, and just accept that whatever is done is fine?
I don't swim with the "ABs are always cheating" pack, but I'm surprised anyone feels their team is above discussion.
Ski slopes closed, mate?
P
potjiekos
Guest
Bloody inciteful....enjoying this one!!!
As somewhat of a rugby purist, I have to add, that I am not pleased with the current tendency of top tier rugby playing nations, choosing to adopt a culture of playing beyond the rules, not in line with the spirit and ethos of the game, rather than concentrating on the fundamentals of rugby or just simply focussing on getting the basics right!
Case in point being the 'institutionalisation' (for lack of an apt phrase) of underhanded tactics such 'stonewalling' , amongst a myriad of other questionable tactics.
I have a huge problem with the fact that coaches are intentionally coaching their charges to commit 'professional fouls', amping them up with a.... ''let's-see-what-we-can-get-away-with-today-by-playing-the-ref'' ....war-cry and when taken to task by rugby pundits, they either shrug their shoulders pleading innocence or they go the more classic route and spew the... ''it's-not-our-fault-if-we-get-away-with-it-but-the IRB's'' .....,while nonchalantly shoving their heads in a hole!!
Just pray that Alain Rolland will have the cohonas to police the breakdown areas adequately, in this afternoon's 'death-match' between the Boks and the AB's in Soweto...... between my frayed nerves and peptic ulcer, I don't think I'd survive, let alone last until the EOYT's!!!
As somewhat of a rugby purist, I have to add, that I am not pleased with the current tendency of top tier rugby playing nations, choosing to adopt a culture of playing beyond the rules, not in line with the spirit and ethos of the game, rather than concentrating on the fundamentals of rugby or just simply focussing on getting the basics right!
Case in point being the 'institutionalisation' (for lack of an apt phrase) of underhanded tactics such 'stonewalling' , amongst a myriad of other questionable tactics.
I have a huge problem with the fact that coaches are intentionally coaching their charges to commit 'professional fouls', amping them up with a.... ''let's-see-what-we-can-get-away-with-today-by-playing-the-ref'' ....war-cry and when taken to task by rugby pundits, they either shrug their shoulders pleading innocence or they go the more classic route and spew the... ''it's-not-our-fault-if-we-get-away-with-it-but-the IRB's'' .....,while nonchalantly shoving their heads in a hole!!
Just pray that Alain Rolland will have the cohonas to police the breakdown areas adequately, in this afternoon's 'death-match' between the Boks and the AB's in Soweto...... between my frayed nerves and peptic ulcer, I don't think I'd survive, let alone last until the EOYT's!!!
I'm not insulting anyone personally, I'm playing the ball not the man.
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