Australia v South Africa - Perth - 6 September 2014

[KOB1987]

@BDA it's my team too with Betham on the bench. I think though that Horwill needs to earn his spot via a big game in the NRC, and despite Fardy being a non-event so far in the series I think Link might give him one more shot.

 

[Viking]

@BDA it's my team too with Betham on the bench. I think though that Horwill needs to earn his spot via a big game in the NRC, and despite Fardy being a non-event so far in the series I think Link might give him one more shot.

Fardy was good in the first Test. Think he was very under-rated. His 2 penalties early on set an unfair perception of him. After that he was one of the best on field IMO, just as good as Slipper and Hooper.

 

[Viking]

The second Test he was a non-event though. Very disappointed in that.

 

[Train Without a Station]

@BDA I do get your point about Fardy and Higginbotham. In one hand Fardy had a shocker. On the other hand he'd also been good for about 10 tests on the trot.

In one hand Higginbotham had a good cameo. On the otherhand, that's about all he has done since Round 1 of Super Rugby.

That essentially rewards Higginbotham for having a fucking shithouse year and managing to switch on for 20 minutes on the weekend.

 

[Braveheart81]

@BDA I do get your point about Fardy and Higginbotham. In one hand Fardy had a shocker. On the other hand he'd also been good for about 10 tests on the trot.

In one hand Higginbotham had a good cameo. On the otherhand, that's about all he has done since Round 1 of Super Rugby.

That essentially rewards Higginbotham for having a fucking shithouse year and managing to switch on for 20 minutes on the weekend.

After that performance I think sending a message isn't a bad idea. One unforced change to the forward pack (Carter) after the dross they served up wouldn't be enough in my opinion. It has a twofold effect of saying it wasn't good enough but also providing the mindset that they're a different bunch taking the field next weekend against South Africa.

Fardy would be the unfortunate loser in that decision. That's not to say he's going to be out of the starting side for long. If Higgers doesn't excel as a starter, Fardy could be straight back in for Argenitna on the Gold Coast.

 

[Lorenzo]

@BDA I do get your point about Fardy and Higginbotham. In one hand Fardy had a shocker. On the other hand he'd also been good for about 10 tests on the trot.

In one hand Higginbotham had a good cameo. On the otherhand, that's about all he has done since Round 1 of Super Rugby.

That essentially rewards Higginbotham for having a fucking shithouse year and managing to switch on for 20 minutes on the weekend.

I find the widespread focus on super rugby form quite confusing.

I think good super rugby form is a good reason to pick a player in the test squad that is untested at test level, or someone that has fallen from grace but has worked his way back up.

I don't think consistently good Super Rugby form is a good reason to keep picking a player that has shown he can't cut it at (elite) test level. I'd consider Giteau to be in this group, as an example. There are other less controversial examples.

I don't think average or poor super rugby form is a good reason to omit a player that has performed well at test level, even if only for the 20 minutes he was on the paddock (against the All Blacks, mind you).

Who do you want to beat? The Cheetahs or the Springboks? The Highlanders or the All Blacks? We've got to select the best possible team and force them to implement the best possible gameplan. There's no room for leaving someone out who may form part of that best possible 15/23 because his Super season was poor. We just don't have that luxury.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I concede your point that simply making one change doesn't send the right message, but neither does accepting a season of poor super rugby form.

The thing that must be considered also is what credit does Higginbotham have in the bank at test level? Fuck all. And he has more caps than Fardy doesn't he? (Just looked, he has 11 more caps) If he had been a previous performer I could understand but we're talking about an albeit very talented player, who has previously failed to deliver.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I find the widespread focus on super rugby form quite confusing.

I think good super rugby form is a good reason to pick a player in the test squad that is untested at test level, or someone that has fallen from grace but has worked his way back up.

I don't think consistently good Super Rugby form is a good reason to keep picking a player that has shown he can't cut it at (elite) test level. I'd consider Giteau to be in this group, as an example. There are other less controversial examples.

I don't think average or poor super rugby form is a good reason to omit a player that has performed well at test level, even if only for the 20 minutes he was on the paddock (against the All Blacks, mind you).

Who do you want to beat? The Cheetahs or the Springboks? The Highlanders or the All Blacks? We've got to select the best possible team and force them to implement the best possible gameplan. There's no room for leaving someone out who may form part of that best possible 15/23 because his Super season was poor. We just don't have that luxury.

What does no Super Rugby form say though?

If a player isn't able to perform to the standard required against Super Rugby opposition, how can you expect him to manage it against test opposition?

 

[Lorenzo]

We are 9-3-1 with Higginbotham starting . That includes wins against both the ABs and Boks.

 

[Lorenzo]

What does no Super Rugby form say though?

If a player isn't able to perform to the standard required against Super Rugby opposition, how can you expect him to manage it against test opposition?

I don't know. I don't have an explanation, but he would hardly be the first athlete to go missing during the domestic season yet step up during big matches, if he is capable of doing that.

It may not help that he plays for the Rebels. Maybe it's easier to look good in the backrow of the Waratahs pack?

 

[KOB1987]

I don't know about Fardy, TWAS - he is in a group of players that have been 'OK' throughout the France series and Bledisloe 1 and then in a smaller group amongst those who were pretty woeful in Bledisloe 2.

I'm inclined to think that Link will give him the benefit of the doubt and start him but the 2013 version needs to turn up to the game, not the 2014 one.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I don't know. I don't have an explanation, but he would hardly be the first athlete to go missing during the domestic season yet step up during big matches, if he is capable of doing that.

It may not help that he plays for the Rebels. Maybe it's easier to look good in the backrow of the Waratahs pack?

Is his Super Rugby form merely an anomaly? He was great in 2013 and 2012 at Super Rugby level but in 26 caps had yet to do anything to really justify continued selection for the Wallabies.

We aren't talking about a previous international star here. We are talking about one that is still yet to cement himself in the Wallaby set up. Surely the onus is on the player to prove his worth, not his performances to disprove it?

 

[Lorenzo]

Is his Super Rugby form merely an anomaly? He was great in 2013 and 2012 at Super Rugby level but in 26 caps had yet to do anything to really justify continued selection for the Wallabies.

We aren't talking about a previous international star here. We are talking about one that is still yet to cement himself in the Wallaby set up. Surely the onus is on the player to prove his worth, not his performances to disprove it?

And what do you call what he did on Saturday? He made 2 genuine line breaks in as many minutes. Yeah, everyone was tired, but they were tired for Phipps and Foley too.

As I said, we are 9-3-1 with Higginbotham starting, including victories against the Boks and and the Blacks. How many times has Fardy participated in victories against those teams? Zero.

And Fardy has 1 more start than Higginbotham.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yes he had a good 20 minutes. That's a single good 20 minutes after failing to consistently maintain quality form recently. Based on how he performed at Super Rugby you could say that's the best we will see from him and it's all downhill from here.

Now I'm not saying that, but in order to predict performances, you can only really look at trends and past performances.

I am a massive fan of Higginbotham and I'd love to make excuses for him to be there but the fact of the matter is he's played about 100 minutes of great rugby since 2013. 20 of those were on Saturday, the other 80 were in February.

He could surprise us, but he could just as easily disappoint us.

 

[Slim 293]

And what do you call what he did on Saturday? He made 2 genuine line breaks in as many minutes. Yeah, everyone was tired, but they were tired for Phipps and Foley too.

As I said, we are 9-3-1 with Higginbotham starting, including victories against the Boks and and the Blacks. How many times has Fardy participated in victories against those teams? Zero.

And Fardy has 1 more start than Higginbotham.

I'm certain Higginbotham has never started in a victory against the All Blacks...........

 

[Slim 293]

I don't know about Fardy, TWAS - he is in a group of players that have been 'OK' throughout the France series and Bledisloe 1 and then in a smaller group amongst those who were pretty woeful in Bledisloe 2.

Fardy was considered one of the MOTM candidates by rugby journos in the 2nd test against France, and picked up a lot of 3-2-1 votes here for the 1st test...........

He was also pretty solid in the first Bledisloe after giving away a couple of early penalties.........

Let's not rewrite history here...........

I don't buy into the theory that the team will improve by dropping players after one lousy test for guys who haven't showed they're likely to do any better............

 

[Lorenzo]

Now I'm not saying that, but in order to predict performances, you can only really look at trends and past performances.

Yet you seem to ignore his that he's generally (69.23%) been part of winning sides at test level when part of the 1st XV.

 

[KOB1987]

Fardy was considered one of the MOTM candidates by rugby journos in the 2nd test against France, and picked up a lot of 3-2-1 votes here for the 1st test.....

Let's not rewrite history here.....

Like I said, he was OK throughout the series, that game balanced out the other two..give me the 2013 Fardy on Saturday week and he can stay there..

 

[Lorenzo]

I'm certain Higginbotham has never started in a victory against the All Blacks.....

You are correct - I was wrong about that. 71st minute sub.

 

[Viking]

Now I'm not saying that, but in order to predict performances, you can only really look at trends and past performances.

To be fair on Higgers, if you look at the "trends of his past performances" He was playing a loose role at the reds and continued this role at the wallabies - which he was heavily criticised for. We wanted him to do more dirty work. Fair enough. Problem was he wasn't use to that as he played a different role at the Reds.

Then he moves to the Rebels and start doing the dirty work. Has a phenomenal season but ends up injured.

since then he has struggles to return from injury with poor performances.

I think we are harsh on players returning from injury. Take Lilo for an example - was never the same player after his ankle injury.

Give him some time. Plenty of potential there.