Australia v South Africa - Perth - 6 September 2014

[Lorenzo]

Interesting post. In regards to the game plan, at times we had a hard time getting out of our half, our kicking game and tactics really let us down. I thought we passed it off to forward runners one or two many times before clearing it and once we cleared it the kick was either straight to the Boks back 3 or out with poor distance.

Strong post. Most of those 2 or 3 phases they run before we kick are a waste of gas and an opportunity to knock the ball on or give away a ruck penalty. I think the idea is to give the kicker a platform without the defence rushing too much (not convinced that is worth it) but then our kickers were kak anyway.

 

[Lorenzo]

The expectation that can be a first rate captain in his first year is too much.
he is so young and inexperienced. But he will grow into the role and make a great vice-captain when Moore returns.

I don't agree that one needs to be a first-rate captain to know that taking the tap kick 25 out when you have been languishing in your own half all night is a really dumb thing to do. It's rush-of-blood-to-the-head stuff that shouldn't happen in the under 15s. By the time you are a wallaby, it shouldn't even be contemplated.

 

[Shiggins]

Crowd figures?

 

[KOB1987]

Did you disagree re Folau's kicking? Do you think fullbacks need to have top-tier kicking chops?

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was considered Australia's premier fullback in 2008. He's not going to play 13 anytime soon.

no it actually wasn't your reference to his kicking, it was that you thought he was a liability at 15..with respect to his in-play kicks at touch, I think there were 2 of them, both had a small angle and were into the wind so they didn't make much ground..

if we want a kicking fullback, sure, there are better options..that's not why he is there though

 

[WTF?]

WTF seems apt. That was a smart piece of play. You didn't notice that our scrum was not real good? Better than 50% chance of conceding a penalty and Steyn can kick them from there. Kev took the right option no question.

I disagree. I think we only got penalised once in the scrum. I actually think we had their measure overall.

 

[Lorenzo]

I think test fullbacks should be able to kick better than Folau can and I don't think that is unreasonable.

He had more than 2 kicks that were substandard. There were 2 or 3 in the first half also. It's a pretty shit part of his game and it's material.

 

[Lorenzo]

I disagree. I think we only got penalised once in the scrum. I actually think we had their measure overall.

Scrums are a bigger lottery than the ruck. If you can secure possession on the 43, that's better than a scrum feed on the 50 no doubt. Nevermind anything could have happened on the bounce.

 

[kiap]

Crowd figures?

Apparently 25,718

 

[Viking]

Strong post. Most of those 2 or 3 phases they run before we kick are a waste of gas and an opportunity to knock the ball on or give away a ruck penalty. I think the idea is to give the kicker a platform without the defence rushing too much (not convinced that is worth it) but then our kickers were kak anyway.

Agreed. And it means an extended amount of time the ball is in the "d zone" which means if their a turn-over a high risk of point to the opposition. Which I think was the result in the first penalty kick awarded to the Boks.

We need to learn to get the ball out of the D zone quicker and more efficiency. Either go wide and attack from distance (rarely) or kick the bloody ball out!

 

[Brumby Runner]

Horwill. What were you thinking? Bokke don't kick it 10, but don't slow play, take the scrum with our feed and wind the clock down but grab it and hope we can hang on for 60 seconds. Lucky we did.

My thoughts too when it happened, but on reflection, if he had let it bounce it could have gone the ten and been retained by the Saffas. In the circumstances, was the best decision.

 

[Lorenzo]

Agreed. And it means an extended amount of time the ball is in the "d zone" which means if their a turn-over a high risk of point to the opposition. Which I think was the result in the first penalty kick awarded to the Boks.

We need to learn to get the ball out of the D zone quicker and more efficiency. Either go wide and attack from distance (rarely) or kick the bloody ball out!

They don't seem terribly fussed with exiting the d-zone and you'd have to think that's just poor coaching.

 

[cyclopath]

Everyone. think of the positives now. Speight is
Eligible!

'Tis great. Can he play lock, backrow or hooker?

 

[ACT Crusader]

I find it interesting that we all have opinions about who should play where, who's more effective at passing turds, etc but no-one questions the overall game plan..the real reason we got 9 points behind in the second half in a game we should have run away with was that we were outplayed by a team that, for at least that 20 minutes, had their shit together..

Being back Deansy aye KOB

Not just tonight, but some of the tactics in the first 2 AB tests were highly questionable also.

There's a couple of very good backline moves that the Aussies execute, but I thought the very wide passing from the base when you had them on the ropes rather than pick n go's was not great tactics.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Beale's attack demands he must be at 10 or 12, yet Beale's defence demands he be right out of the 23. It's a real issue.

Our halves are a real issue right now, there's no clear answer. Outside of his goal kicking and that last pass, Foley was very very average, and Phipps' passing was too all over the shop. To make it worse, Genia was awful in his return from injury in the NRC today. We have no-one else.

Same for the forwards. Only change we can do is Horwill starting, but apart from that, there's no-one else.

Not quite so pessimistic. Phipps was certainly no improvement on Nic White with his wayward passing and shit decisions - quick tap was a brain explosion and took the ball to the wrong side on a number of occasions. Also missed the covering tackle on the Saffas' try which was meant to be one of his defining assets. But I thought Foley, on the whole was better at 10 than KB (Kurtley Beale), and we can look forward to QC (Quade Cooper) returning soon I hope. When the backs decided to run the ball they looked better than at any time against the ABs, but too often again they resorted to kicking when they should have run. KB (Kurtley Beale) again showed his worth as a late replacement. That is his best spot.

I am more certain that improvements can be made in the forwards. Kev would be a better option than either Simmons or Carter atm. And he can allegedly call the lineout, so bring him in for Simmons straight away. If we want a lock who can hit it up and bend the line, then bring back Luke Jones and give him a proper go. Tonight, Higgers was streets ahead of Cliff. Bring him in at 8 and choose between Carter and Skelton on the bench. Also looking forward to TPN and Scott Sio making their returns.

 

[cyclopath]

Not quite so pessimistic. Phipps was certainly no improvement on Nic White with his wayward passing and shit decisions - quick tap was a brain explosion and took the ball to the wrong side on a number of occasions. Also missed the covering tackle on the Saffas' try which was meant to be one of his defining assets. But I thought Foley, on the whole was better at 10 than KB (Kurtley Beale), and we can look forward to QC (Quade Cooper) returning soon I hope. When the backs decided to run the ball they looked better than at any time against the ABs, but too often again they resorted to kicking when they should have run. KB (Kurtley Beale) again showed his worth as a late replacement. That is his best spot.

I am more certain that improvements can be made in the forwards. Kev would be a better option than either Simmons or Carter atm. And he can allegedly call the lineout, so bring him in for Simmons straight away. If we want a lock who can hit it up and bend the line, then bring back Luke Jones and give him a proper go. Tonight, Higgers was streets ahead of Cliff. Bring him in at 8 and choose between Carter and Skelton on the bench. Also looking forward to TPN and Scott Sio making their returns.

Well, the speed of delivery of the ball was way better, Foley was playing flatter to the defence, so we made far more ground with front foot ball, in between the bad stuff, so I would say Phipps was an improvement. But could do better. Watch the last game and this game again, and particularly the speed of delivery from most breakdowns. All in all, I think what we got at 9 was better this week, but I'd like to see more still. From both of them.

Really, the assumption that Cooper is "returning soon" to Tests is fanciful - he hasn't played for a while, still isn't playing, so is hardly going to be parachuted to 10 for the Wallabies in a hurry. I agree it will be good when he's back in the mix, but if he appears in the Wallaby 23 before the EOYT I'll be surprised. To be honest, I'd rather see him back completely ready than in any way prematurely.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It's not just a defensive issue with Beale. He is just weak in contact, First time he ran it into contact tonight he was turned over. Happens all the bloody time IMO.

He added some attacking spark from the bench I would keep him there for the last 20minutes.

Foley, To'omua will only get better with more game time. Tonight they both did well-enough IMO.

That's right about KB (Kurtley Beale). He was turned over about 1 or 2 metres from the tryline when the Wallabies were hot on attack and he elected to go alone. Not a good move.

 

[Lorenzo]

No merit in rushing Cooper back. He's a known quantity. Good to very good behind a pack that isn't getting pushed of the ball and pretty awful when they are. The next 10 or so tests are going to be about figuring out who are the best candidates to beat the ABs next season and bring back bill. Cooper will have to play in some of those but even if he is clearly the best 10, we need to know who is the clear cut best replacement for him.

Right now it isn't clear cut at all. We've got 10 odd tests to figure it out.

 

[Brumby Runner]

How did everyone think Phipps went? I love his motivation/ gee up all game long

Now that you ask - no better than Nic White. May be faster to the breakdown (though I am not convinced) but his wayward passing is no mote accurate and he makes as many or more poor decisions on where to attack from a ruck.

 

[Shiggins]

Apparently 25,718

Next yr sacrifice a few seats and play at NIB

 

[Brumby Runner]

really well IMO. His passing in front of the man was a notable difference to White. Works his ass off too.

Did you miss the many that went above the receiver's head or those that went along the ground, and there were quite a few.