Australian Club Challenge

[Ash]

I am a Queenslander - but unless you have played in or been involved in Sydney club rugby you have no idea as to the difference.
I am not speaking with any emotion or sense of state pride here, Sydney club rugby is miles ahead of Brisbane club rugby in quality and intensity.
Up here in Bris we have Premier, 2nd, 3rd and probably colts.
In Sydney you will have anywhere up to 7 teams plus 3 colts, then second division, sub district (3 divisions).
The depth and player strength is massive compared to up here.
After being involved in both scenes - Brisbane is in with no show - there is no comparison.

I don't think the difference is as big as you think.

Sydney doesn't have as many teams as it used to back in 2003 - 2004. You are also a bit wrong with how it is structured in Sydney now.

Since they removed Premier from relegation, there's been Premier div, then Subbies with all the divisions (1 - 6, although 4 no longer exists). Division one 1st grade subbies is maybe 3rd or 4th grade of premiership division, lower if you compare to Sydney Uni. Relelgation / promotion is only in Subbies.

There's a HUGE difference in the have and have nots across all divisions too. Some of the premiership clubs do not have 3 colts teams, for example. Some clubs can field more than 7 grades, some can't field all 7.

You go down to 1st div subbies, and very frew clubs can field 7 teams and colts, most of the teams struggle to field 5 grades and rely on people playing 2 games, some teams can't field both colts and 5th grade and rely on people playing two games just to get 4ths.

I'm not saying that the Brisbane comp is better (it isn't), but you are way off the margin in your estimation of differences. Anecdotally, I used to think the same way. Back in 2003 there was a Kiwi 1st grade player at (bottom half of the ladder) 1st div Subbies side UNSW. He moved to Brisbane and played for Souths (if I remember correctly). He could only make thirds - which is probably close to where he might've been for most Premier div clubs. He said that he was surprised at the quality of the Brisbane club comp.

In regard to 1st div 1st grade Subbies being about 3rds - 4ths Premier div, this was probably back around 2004. UNSW got some 2nd - 3rd grade Randwick players who walked into 1st grade.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

How did the Vikings go when they left Bris after successive premierships and went and joined Sydney - 8th I believe.

 

[Ash]

True, but that Vikings team wasn't as strong as the previous ones that won the Brisbane comp.

Additionally, you are glossing over heaps of history here.

The Vikings came SECOND in the Sydney comp before moving to the Brisbane comp.

 

[Ash]

Additionally, I would think that Sydney Uni is the strongest club in Australia, easily (like quite a few people here, I don't agree with how it does it). But I would think that Sunnybank would be able to finish in the top 3 in the Sydney club comp - assuming some of Sunnybank's key players aren't called up for Wallabies duty. Were would you think Sunnybank would finish?

Back onto Sydney Uni, can't see them being beaten again this year, although perhaps they won't look quite as strong as they have in years past.

Can anyone remember when Halangahu last regularly played flyhalf for Sydney Uni ahead of young Dan Kelly?

 

[cyclopath]

I really don't mean it to be a pissing contest, it actually depresses me to see the amount of warehousing of talent that Sydney Uni do.

And it totally pisses off other Sydney clubs to see their talented juniors turn up at Uni with a "scholarship" of sorts after leaving year 12. To find out later some of these youngsters aren't even going to university is arrogant in the extreme.

One example: Phil Waugh lived on the northern beaches as a little tacker and played his junior rugby with Narrabeen Tigers before choofing off to Shore. He was a very talented youngster and ended up captain of Australian Schoolboys. First year out, does he roll up for the Rats? No, bloody Sydney Uni seduce him with a promise of a "scholarship" and future representative honours. Same with Laurie Weeks, a Wests Junior player before he went to Joeys. Have a look through Uni's colts list last year; if you haven't made school or junior representative teams, never mind First XV, don't bother turning up. Any points system to even out the available talent has my full support. I have no objection to talented young players turning out for Uni, as long as as they study there. But poaching other clubs' juniors isn't on.

What a load of bollocks, I'm sorry. I don't agree with poaching by scholarship, but are you seriously saying players can't choose to play for Uni unless they study there?? Why can't a player decide " I want to go to a strong club that's going to help my rugby"? Do you have to live in a geographical boundary to play for any other club? Good players just going there, and poaching are 2 quite separate issues.
Just so everyone's clear - I DO NOT APPROVE OF POACHING BY CLUBS.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

It used to be the rule at Ini that you actually had to attend the Uni and study there. Once that pre-requisite was done you could stay on but any player couldn't just roll up and play without being a student.

 

[cyclopath]

My understanding is that time has passed a while back.

 

[fatprop]

It does not help Sydney club rugby having player of the quality of Nathan Sievert & Daniel Kelly etc playing 2s

 

[TOCC]

Dont want to be picky, but Laurie Weeks is playing for UQ in QLD this year, so im not sure on the accuracy of that team list.

Im not trying to turn this into a pissing contest, but this is just a example of the QLD contracted players at Sunnybank in 2009. Not withstanding that they have also lost a lot of talent in recent years as well.

1. Dayna Edwards
2. Albert Anae
3. Greg Holmes
4. Rob Simmons
5.
6.
7.
8. Jake Schatz
9. Ben Lucas
10. Stefano Hunt
11. Brendan Vaalu
12. Charlie Fetoia
13. Digby Ioane
14.
15. Mark Mclinden

Isnt Stefano Hunt still a schoolboy???

ah i think he finished last year, his in the Reds academy regardless

 

[RugbyReg]

isn't he a winger? Richard Kingi, from the Oz 7s team would be at 10

 

[rugbywhisperer]

There is a Stefano Hunt at Nudgee in the centres - also in the Qld NTS, so I doubt it's him at Sunnbank.

 

[Lindommer]

I really don't mean it to be a pissing contest, it actually depresses me to see the amount of warehousing of talent that Sydney Uni do.

And it totally pisses off other Sydney clubs to see their talented juniors turn up at Uni with a "scholarship" of sorts after leaving year 12. To find out later some of these youngsters aren't even going to university is arrogant in the extreme.

One example: Phil Waugh lived on the northern beaches as a little tacker and played his junior rugby with Narrabeen Tigers before choofing off to Shore. He was a very talented youngster and ended up captain of Australian Schoolboys. First year out, does he roll up for the Rats? No, bloody Sydney Uni seduce him with a promise of a "scholarship" and future representative honours. Same with Laurie Weeks, a Wests Junior player before he went to Joeys. Have a look through Uni's colts list last year; if you haven't made school or junior representative teams, never mind First XV, don't bother turning up. Any points system to even out the available talent has my full support. I have no objection to talented young players turning out for Uni, as long as as they study there. But poaching other clubs' juniors isn't on.

What a load of bollocks, I'm sorry. I don't agree with poaching by scholarship, but are you seriously saying players can't choose to play for Uni unless they study there? Why can't a player decide "I want to go to a strong club that's going to help my rugby?" Do you have to live in a geographical boundary to play for any other club? Good players just going there, and poaching are 2 quite separate issues.
Just so everyone's clear - I DO NOT APPROVE OF POACHING BY CLUBS.

Unfortunately for Uni, Pedallist, these two issues are inextricably entwined. As it doesn't have any juniors it relies on attracting talented young rugby players to study at Sydney Uni (with its "scholarships") or it must poach other Sydney clubs' juniors. There is a third avenue available to Uni: players from outside Sydney looking for a club. I have little problem with Vickerman, Caldwell, Schwager, Lyons, Davidson, Halangahu, the McCutcheons et al choosing Uni for their rugby (other than an unwillingwess to spread the talent around and stop stockpiling talent in Uni's seconds), but I have a MAJOR problem with Afeaki, Playford, Mumm, Weeks, Taumoepeau, Inman and others from junior clubs spread out around Sydney turning up at Uni. You're inside the fortress so you, understandably, have a Uni point of view. But those outside the walls who see their juniors playing in blue and gold bitterly resent it and take every opportunity to put the boot into Uni. This isn't good; we must all respect each other in order to have a healthy and strong competition. If the current points system results in players such as Sievert choosing to play first grade elsewhere (he's moved to Southern Districts for the 2009 season) rather than languish in Uni seconds, well and good.

 

[TOCC]

There is a Stefano Hunt at Nudgee in the centres - also in the Qld NTS, so I doubt it's him at Sunnbank.

Stefano Hunt is definetly a Sunnybank boy, he might still be at school though, i was under the impression that he had finished. If he is still at school it means he has been in the 1stXV 3 years in a row because he actually played alongside Jame O'Connor whilst he was in the 1stXV in 2007.

He can play both 5/8 and inside centre, most of his representative honours have been at 12, but Quade Cooper was also picked at 12 most of the time.