• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Australian Rugby / RA

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
just a comment on current levels of technology.

For example, nanotechnology knowledge is doubling every two years and clinical knowledge every 18 months. But on average human knowledge is doubling every 13 months. According to IBM, the build out of the “internet of things” will lead to the doubling of knowledge every 12 hours.Apr 19, 2013


And it won't be long before we all disappear up our own fundamental orifices.


I used to work in the IT business. Started as a coder back in 1965, that is only 53 years ago. Back then, we had a an IBM system, the CPU had 16k characters (not bytes), of which about 6k was given over to the operating system.


Bloody staggering.
 

half

Alan Cameron (40)
I don't think we're likely to see rugby union, AFL or league make a serious play in the video game/esports market because the games all suck. I don't think it is just a case of having the desire to make a better game. The sports just don't translate well.

In soccer there is FIFA, Pro Evolution Soccer and Football Manager that are all huge franchises. They attract gaming fans who have little interest in following actual football leagues because they are good games and the sport translates very well to video games. Same applies for basketball in particular.

Thanks for that. My comments have largely said I don't know what or how to react.

My belief is we need to.

I base this on the US study by the guardian above https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/sep/27/fifa-17-release-american-soccer-fans-mls

There is a coloration between E-games and viewing traditional games. Madden as you posted is a huge game in its own right and many people who watch American Football also play madden.

What shocked me was the quantum i.e. 2 million plus Fox streaming to be added. A 2% conversation rate to TV watcher is 40 K. Both the guardian article and madden indicate the conversation is far higher than 2%.

As to the solution, no idea, but that we as a code should be thinking how to counter this
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I agree that FIFA brings in fans. It does so on the back of being a good video game though.

I don't think it's really something that other sports can just decide they will counter by doing the same thing. Crap games don't convert anyone. The starting point of the fan uptake via the video game is always because the person loved the game and decided to look into the real thing.
 

Tex

Greg Davis (50)
Tex on your radical idea of engaging kids boarding the player base.

How about we start a computer game that shows all of rugby's skills, and all Super Rugby teams, that shows the names of all our players, of all our teams, coaches and stadiums we play at.

Think it might work.

Ok, got it. I'll go on the record as comeone who'd love to have a good rugby game available on computer or playstation/xbox, but I don't make the mistake of conflating gamers with a new audience for traditional rugby.

There's a thin wedge of the venn diagram (probably wholly represented by people who frequent online forums, just saying...) who love rugby and the idea of rugby games, but I don't think it'll do anything to improve RA's bottom line or the bread and butter participation in rugby, the rugby community and all that it entails.

Bring on a good rugby game, because the old PS2 version that I last played was pretty scrappy and crap.
 

Ignoto

Greg Davis (50)
What shocked me was the quantum i.e. 2 million plus Fox streaming to be added. A 2% conversation rate to TV watcher is 40 K. Both the guardian article and madden indicate the conversation is far higher than 2%.

As to the solution, no idea, but that we as a code should be thinking how to counter this


How rugby is played doesn't lend itself to being easily translated to an enjoyable playing experience. Designing and implementing how a ruck works is extremely difficult, lots of bodies are in motion which contribute to a pretty complex gameplay system. Compared to say football where only one person/player controls the ball and the other 10 blokes are doing their own thing, a ruck may have 4 - 8 player/AI doing something. Just because team A has 4 guys in the ruck, doesn't meant team B with 3 lose the ruck.

In any event, you're right on e-sports being such an untapped area. However, the AFL teams are venturing into this, BUT they're not worrying about the games their playing.

Games such as Counter Strike, Overwatch, League of Legends all have e-sport teams, colleges in the US even give scholarships to the best players to compete on behalf of the college.

What this means is, the super rugby teams (and the ARU) can branch out to e-sports offerings and have the "QLD Reds" Overwatch team. I'd daresay, you could have an entire esports team for $200-400k which includes coaches and 4-8 players. In some of the competitions they play in, the amount of eyeballs on those tournaments would make SANZAAR blush.

In a roundabout way, what I'm saying is, there are e-sport opportunities that Australian Rugby teams can jump on that are easy wins, brings more attention to their organisation which would spark interest for a very minimal cost to the organisation.
 

Killer

Cyril Towers (30)
How rugby is played doesn't lend itself to being easily translated to an enjoyable playing experience. Designing and implementing how a ruck works is extremely difficult, lots of bodies are in motion which contribute to a pretty complex gameplay system. Compared to say football where only one person/player controls the ball and the other 10 blokes are doing their own thing, a ruck may have 4 - 8 player/AI doing something. Just because team A has 4 guys in the ruck, doesn't meant team B with 3 lose the ruck.

In any event, you're right on e-sports being such an untapped area. However, the AFL teams are venturing into this, BUT they're not worrying about the games their playing.

Games such as Counter Strike, Overwatch, League of Legends all have e-sport teams, colleges in the US even give scholarships to the best players to compete on behalf of the college.

What this means is, the super rugby teams (and the ARU) can branch out to e-sports offerings and have the "QLD Reds" Overwatch team. I'd daresay, you could have an entire esports team for $200-400k which includes coaches and 4-8 players. In some of the competitions they play in, the amount of eyeballs on those tournaments would make SANZAAR blush.

In a roundabout way, what I'm saying is, there are e-sport opportunities that Australian Rugby teams can jump on that are easy wins, brings more attention to their organisation which would spark interest for a very minimal cost to the organisation.


yes I agree, I have similar lateral ideas but sometimes mentioning them, esp someone like me who has a lot of haters, distracts the conversation. Absolutely right.
 

ForceFan

Chilla Wilson (44)
Don't just sign off because of the messenger - read the message.
So much of what's being said is highly relevant.

Alan Jones
27 April 2018
Here's my article from today's Australian Newspaper about rugby.

It is most probably unpalatable for the Board of Rugby Australia to contemplate, but the reality is, another grim weekend lies ahead for Australian Super Rugby teams.

Not only did those teams not win a game last week, but none of them at any time lead in their respective matches. Surely we can’t be that bad.

Someone has to concede that there is something chronically wrong and yet Rugby Australia is deaf to the problem and therefore indifferent to any solution.

As my readers know, I have had a lot to say on this issue.

But what is more instructive is what others are saying about what I am saying. The feedback has been overwhelming.

Almost without exception, the rugby family is angry and that is borne out by attendances. Some of the comments by leading lights are a scathing indictment of where we are and if nothing changes, and nothing so far has changed, it’s disturbing to think where the game may end up.

A former very senior official with Rugby has written to me, “as for the state of rugby, it is just abysmal. The responsibility for the appointment of a CEO, indeed in each and every business and sport, rests with the board; it’s the board’s single-most important decision. If you get it right, then enjoy the fruits of success; however, if you choose badly, the consequences are dire. Then the board/chairman must consider their position. As for the nominations committee, they seem notorious for fishing from the same gene pool. That is a real obstacle for bringing in people with the required and appropriate skills set to govern and manage this magnificent game. A closed shop, I’m sad to say!”

A dedicated Queensland rugby supporter and one of our finest and most acclaimed sporting journalists wrote to me this week: “Congratulations on your rugby column. Someone needs to breathe some sense into the sport”.

He was commenting primarily on the Israel Folau affair. But having seen the demise yet again last week of Queensland on the field, he argued, “it’s sickening to watch a once great Queensland rugby side have no idea how to play the game. And to leave out the man who used to orchestrate it! The commentators talked about the “crowd’’. That was an overstatement. Queensland rugby moved to Suncorp because Ballymore only held 20,000! Now, they wouldn’t half fill Ballymore.

“I know people must think Quade (Cooper) to be a very bad person not to be allowed around the team. They can’t imagine he’s been left right out on huge money unless there were some nefarious reasons. They roll their eyes unknowingly.”

And then with a slogan that echoes with Queensland rugby fans, he wrote, “put the Q back in Queensland and bring back Quade”.

Well, the weekend ahead doesn’t offer a lot of hope for scoreboard change. The Rebels play the Stormers, which may well offer our only hope of success; Queensland play the South African Lions, who have played nine and won six; the Brumbies play the Crusaders, who have played eight and won six. Mercifully, after a scoring wipe-out last weekend, NSW have the bye.

But it prompts a question doesn’t it?

What is being done to arrest this?

We haven’t won a game against a New Zealand province since goodness knows when. I wrote early last month that someone on the board had to recognise the mess the game was in and do something about it. And I wrote: “One of the great weaknesses of Australian rugby, certainly at provincial level, is coaching … there is no one with any coaching success that I know of who is responsible for appointing coaches.”

I have said it before. If there’s a high-performance unit in Australian rugby, it seems to be about as effective as the cricket high-performance unit. The person whom Rugby Australia appointed to develop Australian coaches is Rod Kafer. I’ve asked before and I ask again, was the job advertised? Who appointed him?

The hoopla and fanfare would have you believe he’s a great thinker of the game. That being the case, as I have said before, why did he last one season as a head coach at Saracens in England?

And he has not coached anyone to win anything in Australia. It is valid to ask, what criteria were applied in charging him with developing Australian coaches?

It seems we are prepared to address everything in relation to rugby bureaucracy but don’t know enough about the game to address the issue of rugby results. Last week, the South African Lions beat NSW 29-0.

Surely it’s valid to argue that if Australian teams are playing a poor brand of rugby and not winning, people will switch off.

In that environment, how long can the game survive? Two things emerge. We must invest in our best young players so they stay in the game and get the right people coaching them. This means we must put more players, fresh out of school, in full-time high performance environments. Find a sponsor. Save the code. If we want to grow more winners, invest in those who will make winning a habit.

I will address the Super Rugby model at a later date. Suffice to say, I do not support the current model. We should be playing in an ANZAC Super Rugby competition. Let South Africa play in Europe in their own time zone. And it is not our business to prop up Japanese and Argentinian rugby. We have to save ourselves.

Surely four or five Australian teams, playing seven or eight Kiwi teams would give us a great competition. New Zealand is strong enough to field seven or eight teams and the Force should be brought back.

Swallow your pride, Rugby Australia, along with your administrative stupidity and ask Andrew Forrest to sponsor the Force plus a National Academy. Everyone wins. The savings in travel costs and accommodation would be enormous; and we would be giving a very wealthy rugby-loving philanthropist an opportunity to change the game.

Get rid of Giteau’s law. That allows Test players with over 60 caps to play in Europe or Japan and still play for the Wallabies. It sends a mixed message to players.

If you have built a winning culture your best players will put the green and gold ahead of financial inducement. After all, the Wallabies are well paid and there should be a price to be paid for deserting Australia when they should be leading Australia.

But if you want to put the cue firmly in the rack, and highlight a symbol that surely emphatically confirms we are well down the wrong track, consider this. NSW rugby is not alone in being strapped for cash. Broke may be uncharitable but close to the truth. And so, we say, we can’t afford to keep our best schoolboy players in the game. But we’ve got money for personal gurus.

It seems that the Waratahs’ Kiwi CEO, Andrew Hore, would rather spend money on psychobabble than on developing talent. This is the organisation that could not find a full-time academy spot for Billy Smith and Charlie Rorke, our best two Australian Schoolboys from 2017. Both have gone to the NRL in full-time roles.

The Waratahs cry poor, but have money to shell out big cash on boardroom head shrink gurus.

Are you as staggered as I am, to learn that NSW have appointed an “executive coach”? Apparently his job is to “facilitate change to their development”. Not sure who or what he’s developing, but I love his observation about his role: “I am not attached to the outcomes …” Now there’s a good job!

And what about this: “The biggest thing for the Waratahs is changing their culture to one that learns from loss — I call it learning how to lose. And they didn’t understand how to do that properly ...”.

Well, forgive me. I am not a defeatist, but I am inclined to want to give up on noting this extravagant stupidity. But I suppose we should celebrate his success. If you’re going to teach people how to lose, then last week the shrink was spot on. Lions 29, Waratahs 0.
 

p.Tah

John Thornett (49)
We should get a rugby board game and then film people playing it or better still film the people who are watching people play it. A bit like Goggle Box.
 

Crashy

Arch Winning (36)
Anyone know how to get tickets to bledisloe 3 in japan this year? I’m not a kiwi, japanese or a wallabies plus member.
 

waiopehu oldboy

Stirling Mortlock (74)
We should get a rugby board game and then film people playing it or better still film the people who are watching people play it. A bit like Goggle Box.

You may have just thought up the worst "reality" show ever. Makes MAFS & I'm a Celeb look like Hamlet & the Scottish play :)
 

Dismal Pillock

David Codey (61)
Can't speak for anyone else, but I would pay BIG money to watch guys like Shiggins, Dismal Pillock, et al., watching games of rugby.
nothing much to see at this end mate

giphy.gif
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
The coaching article that Alan jones is mentioning above..

This would be costing a bomb. and he argues against sports psychology (you actually need a degree to be a sports psychologist instead of a “performance coach”) it’s seriously bewildering.

http://www.thecoachingroom.com.au/blog/why-waratahs-ceo-andrew-hore-is-learning-how-to-lose
My god.
That bloke reads like a tv evangelist.
The only thing I like is the concept of accelerating maturation, which should mean the dead wood and the losers will be retired sooner.
“Show me a good loser and i’ll Show you a loser”
 

Rugbynutter39

Michael Lynagh (62)
A tad harsh. I think JON was a big mover and then the Saffers decided to dictate things. Kiwis are in control now though and if they are not interested in working to Australian market requirements we need to get out. I wouldn't call them as responsible for the mess though.



Jointly culpable....but I agree my post is too harsh on the kiwi's as equally I don't blame them for our misfortune as they are looking after NZ rugby interests which are not mutually exclusive but my point still stands that if we are looking to the Kiwi's for our rugby salvation in terms of new competition we are screwed. The sheep shagging kiwi's comment was also tongue in cheek so hope no sheep were offended...:p
 

Aurelius

Ted Thorn (20)
So, the Waratahs are spending money on "developmental coaches" who are absolutely distinct from sports psychologists who have absolutely no place in professional sport and are struggling for results and spectators.

Meanwhile, across the country a new start-up club backed by private money is advertising like crazy, experimenting with innovative rule changes to promote running rugby, offering the cheapest tickets in the country and hiring big-name rock bands to provide big name entertainment.

And right around the country, people are wondering just what Rugby Australia can do to turn the ship around. Maybe they should invest in "developmental coaching" at the board level.
 
Top