Australian Rugby / RA

[Dave Beat]

That's great. But unless I misheard it's only a 5 week program. We need school kids engaging in proper organised Rugby. More kids, more Rugby, brighter future.

Ive done quite a bit of research here.
That was one of a variety of programs, there are others that also come with government funding.
The NSWRu are also great to deal with, just need people to open the doors and help overcome school hurdles. It is not as easy as saying hey school lets do this.

 

[Dave Beat]

Be

Why 8 years Dave?
A 5 year plan works in line with the broadcast funding, I.e the ARU know how much money they have to spend on development officers and programs over the next 5 years.

You can ace longer term goals and objectives, but 5 years is the practical length when talking the allocation of resources for the immediate future.



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Because kindy to year six is 7 years and doesnt capture the high school run off.
It also carrys the year 7 seven kids into colts.

It gets reviewed each year with wholes plugged, and weaknesses improved.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Just so we're clear, this plan hasn't actually been released yet.maybe read the report next week then post questions

I still don't see what 'engaging' premier clubs with money achieves, until premier clubs guarantee that they won't spend money on player payments and make cuts on player payments, then ARU funds shouldn't be directed to them at all.

if that is truly the problem there is a readily available legal structure that could stop it and make those who breach it liable.
Simple.

$25m was head office salaries and benefits .

 

[Dave Beat]

Just so we're clear, this plan hasn't actually been released yet.maybe read the report next week then post questions

I still don't see what 'engaging' premier clubs with money achieves, until premier clubs guarantee that they won't spend money on player payments and make cuts on player payments, then ARU funds shouldn't be directed to them at all.

I have not been critical of the ARU;
It hasn't been announced, which is great - who knows some of the ideas that come from punterville GAGR may provide some reviews or amendments.

I have also not said players should be paid, in fact i have said the grants need to be earned by meeting / exceeding results - I.e. paid after results, not before - and some of these results financially benefit ARU through levies so why not?

Some people have been critical of Bob Dwyer; a coach that was worked at nearly every level of the game and has possibly got a better understanding than most posters here. I havent past comment on his article as it came from a jurno and possibly hasn't captures the whole open conversation. As i said above - "But more importantly retaining the great values that rugby is known for world wide - great people loving the game.

Great example here - chilling out and hearing great rugby stories with a RWC winning coach;

Great arvo!!

Premier Rugby is crucial to our game, stats prove that over a number of years.

TOCC, I'm not debating you post hear, don't take it the wrong way

 

[Quick Hands]

WHAT IS A FIVE-YEAR PLAN?
It's a holdover from the Soviet-style command economy, a blueprint that sets numerous targets and guidelines for a range of social, economic, educational, cultural and environmental issues.
While China has been through three decades of market-oriented economic reforms, the plan is still is a key component of China's state-controlled and centrally planned society.
It has been instrumental in much of the country's political success, though not necessarily the economic advances it enjoys today.
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/poli...chinas-five-year-plan-overhang-soviet-era-has

 

[Quick Hands]

Be
Because kindy to year six is 7 years and doesnt capture the high school run off.
It also carrys the year 7 seven kids into colts.

It gets reviewed each year with wholes plugged.

You're talking too much common sense Dave. It's obvious to people like you and me at the coal face. To those on the receiving end of "$25 million in salaries AND BENEFITS' it's not so obvious.

 

[TOCC]

if that is truly the problem there is a readily available legal structure that could stop it and make those who breach it liable.
Simple.

Yes player payments truly are a problem, ironically ceasing player payments would provide most clubs with a windfall equal to or greater then what the ARU was previously providing them anyway. An obvious exception for a few clubs like Parra and Penrith who can't afford player payments anyway.

I guess the obvious question is then why haven't the clubs reached this agreement with each other already, and I think you will find that the wealthier clubs adamantly oppose it.

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[barbarian]

That $25 million on salaries and bonuses does seem a bit high, doesn't it?

AFL and NRL are a lot more vague in their annual reports, so can't find a figure to compare with.

Obviously you need to pay your staff competitively, and I've really got no idea what is an acceptable figure here but....... it just seems above what it should be.
.

 

[kiap]

That $25 million on salaries and bonuses does seem a bit high, doesn't it?

It does seem high.

Saying that, I'll put on my "bush accountant" hat and take a look at the 2014 figures. Employee benefits were about $25.5m, of which $23.7m were wages and salaries. But those numbers are for the consolidated entity. For the Australian Rugby Union Ltd (the parent entity), the wages and salaries were $16.3m.

From a back of the envelope calculation, that'd be an average salary of about $125k for 130 employees.

That's not peanuts.

But I'd guess that includes some interns on a rate equivalent to $20k p.a., plus a mid-range cohort on 75-150k-ish, and all the way up to a few "whales" pulling in around half a mill and more (the likes of Pulver himself and possibly the head coach).

 

[I like to watch]

It's a big number,but I'm comfortable there is very little fat left in admin at ARU.
They went through the joint with a flame thrower a few years back when they realised there was a black hole in their projected cash flows.

The problem I see with the ARU,is their lack of diversity in the roles that count.
Their personal experience with grassroots,are with clubs /Schools, with entities that are under no pressure.
None of them have kids who no longer have a team to play for,when the private school kids abandon club rugby(as all their kids have moved on to private schools)etc etc.

 

[Quick Hands]

Yes, it will be interesting to see how they use all their experience of the state school system to expand rugby there.

A noble aim and vital to the future of the game. I see in today's paper the ARU have finally woken up to the fact that 8 or 10 private schools in Sydney and a similar number in Brisbane can't produce enough players in the professional era to ensure Wallaby success.

People on these threads worked that out years ago (and have been largely ignored by the powers that be).

When I was at school in the 70s the North Shore CHS Zone ran what was called grade sport every Wednesday 13 A and B, 14 A and B, 15 A and B 16 A and B and 1st and 2nd grade rugby. By the late 90s this had shrunk to 13s, 15s and Opens, but it was still there. Disappeared completely in the early 00s during the first JON era.

The task ahead (to establish and/or re-establish rugby in the CHS system) dwarfs the labours of Hercules. I hope the ARU is up for it, but we're talking 20 years of hard, hard slog ahead.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yes, it will be interesting to see how they use all their experience of the state school system to expand rugby there.

A noble aim and vital to the future of the game. I see in today's paper the ARU have finally woken up to the fact that 8 or 10 private schools in Sydney and a similar number in Brisbane can't produce enough players in the professional era to ensure Wallaby success.

People on these threads worked that out years ago (and have been largely ignored by the powers that be).

When I was at school in the 70s the North Shore CHS Zone ran what was called grade sport every Wednesday 13 A and B, 14 A and B, 15 A and B 16 A and B and 1st and 2nd grade rugby. By the late 90s this had shrunk to 13s, 15s and Opens, but it was still there. Disappeared completely in the early 00s during the first JON era.

The task ahead (to establish and/or re-establish rugby in the CHS system) dwarfs the labours of Hercules. I hope the ARU is up for it, but we're talking 20 years of hard, hard slog ahead.

Start with the PSSA system first and as kids make the jump from Primary to Secondary then after creating the demand then look to really get the CHS/non-GPS/CAS private schools running.

 

[Quick Hands]

Start with the PSSA system first and as kids make the jump from Primary to Secondary then after creating the demand then look to really get the CHS/non-GPS/CAS private schools running.

Correct. Also most junior clubs are primary school based - i.e. they draw their players from the local primary school. So it's a good way to start or strengthen junior clubs.

Many of us have been saying this for a while as well. Even in this area, which has a significant rugby demographic, rugby has almost disappeared from the primary school. PSSA Friday sport is league or soccer. If a school is lucky enough to have a teacher who is rugby oriented, they will put a team in the state-wide Palmer Shield knockout competition.

I applaud the ARU for finally recognising that they have to do something in the state system, but as ILTW alluded to above; the people running rugby in this country have little experience in the state school system. I don't think that they really appreciate the magnitude of the task ahead and the resources that will be required to succeed.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Correct. Also most junior clubs are primary school based - i.e. they draw their players from the local primary school. So it's a good way to start or strengthen junior clubs.

Many of us have been saying this for a while as well. Even in this area, which has a significant rugby demographic, rugby has almost disappeared from the primary school. PSSA Friday sport is league or soccer. If a school is lucky enough to have a teacher who is rugby oriented, they will put a team in the state-wide Palmer Shield knockout competition.

I applaud the ARU for finally recognising that they have to do something in the state system, but as ILTW alluded to above; the people running rugby in this country have little experience in the state school system. I don't think that they really appreciate the magnitude of the task ahead and the resources that will be required to succeed.

Fortunately, I don't think it's an impossible task and there won't be any options regarding a quick fix anytime soon either. It's very much a long term project and I'd imagine that we are looking at probably a decade before we begin to see real results. But, again it's not an impossible task.

I was looking at the number of schools in Western Sydney. There's 327 at present. A mate who's a teacher at that level reckons the average works out to be roughly 400 kids per school. So a little over 130,000 kids. To reach everyone of those schools would be a Herculean effort but again not impossible. It just depends on how they go about it. Using the new funding to run schools competitions, providing the structure for them and then using the DOs as trainers for teachers would be a good start. To supplement that while they do have some resources a comprehensive platform that combines laws guidance, skills development etc. would also be of huge benefit. It effectively could link teachers/coaches as a means of peer to peer support and perhaps guidance.

 

[Dave Beat]

Fortunately, I don't think it's an impossible task. There won't be any options regarding a quick fix anytime soon either. It's very much a long term project and I'd imagine that we are looking at probably a decade before we begin to see real results. But, again it's not an impossible task.

I was looking at the number of schools in Western Sydney. There's 327 at present. A mate who's a teacher at that level reckons the average works out to be roughly 400 kids per school. So a little over 130,000 kids. To reach everyone of those schools would be a Herculean effort but again not impossible. It just depends on how they go about it. Using the new funding to run schools competitions, providing the structure for them and then using the DOs as trainers for teachers would be a good start. To supplejent that while they do have some resources a comprehensive platform that combines laws guidance, skills development etc. Would also be off huge benefit. It effectively could link teachers/coaches as a means of peer to peer support and perhaps guidance.

True
I said 8+
You say a decade
same same.
School & Club doubles the touch points.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

True
I said 8+
You say a decade
same same.
School & Club doubles the touch points.

In terms of results we're fairly close but I tend to agree with others on the 5 year plan. It allows for tweaking if necessary. If something isn't working and another thing is it provides the opportunity to change it up in a shorter timeframe.

 

[Dave Beat]

In terms of results we're fairly close but I tend to agree with others on the 5 year plan. It allows for tweaking if necessary. If something isn't working and another thing is it provides the opportunity to change it up in a shorter time frame.

Whether it be 5 / 8+ / 10 - i'd look at tweaking it every school term, because so much work is required with regards to implementing in into schools.
Schools without it in their PSSA generally don't compete in the Gala Days.
Then there is there are the various rugby programs that can be brought into the cericulam.

 

[Quick Hands]

Fortunately, I don't think it's an impossible task and there won't be any options regarding a quick fix anytime soon either. It's very much a long term project and I'd imagine that we are looking at probably a decade before we begin to see real results. But, again it's not an impossible task.

I was looking at the number of schools in Western Sydney. There's 327 at present. A mate who's a teacher at that level reckons the average works out to be roughly 400 kids per school. So a little over 130,000 kids. To reach everyone of those schools would be a Herculean effort but again not impossible. It just depends on how they go about it. Using the new funding to run schools competitions, providing the structure for them and then using the DOs as trainers for teachers would be a good start. To supplement that while they do have some resources a comprehensive platform that combines laws guidance, skills development etc. would also be of huge benefit. It effectively could link teachers/coaches as a means of peer to peer support and perhaps guidance.

I agree it's not impossible, but it will be long term and expensive in terms of both money and resources.

At the primary level, the kids who are introduced to the game need to be funnelled into the club system to either new or existing clubs. Simply running school competitions is only half doing the job - as I've said many times on these threads before; the most successful team sports in Australia are all club based rather than schools based. The schools should be the icing on the cake, not the cake.

 

[Quick Hands]

In terms of results we're fairly close but I tend to agree with others on the 5 year plan. It allows for tweaking if necessary. If something isn't working and another thing is it provides the opportunity to change it up in a shorter timeframe.

You tweak all plans whether they are one year, two year, five year or 20 year. If tweaking is only done every five years, then the plan is lost before it's even begun.

Five year plans are often glosssy box-ticking exercises more at home in Stalin's Russia or Mao's China rather than the 21st century.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I agree it's not impossible, but it will be long term and expensive in terms of both money and resources.

At the primary level, the kids who are introduced to the game need to be funnelled into the club system to either new or existing clubs. Simply running school competitions is only half doing the job - as I've said many times on these threads before; the most successful team sports in Australia are all club based rather than schools based. The schools should be the icing on the cake, not the cake.

Oh, I agree. As I've previously said, it needs to be a coordinated effort. The ARU needs to get into schools and get kids playing while the clubs need to provide information an opportunity for these same kids to play outside as well. Part that I magine would linking up with clubs in each area and setting out goals and strategies to corale as many kids from schools programs.

Still, I think what is needed is structured competition over just 4 or 5 visits a year. This is merely ancedotal but from experience the retention rates with these sort of programs tends to be neglible. Rugby is a game you have to play. I've found once most play it and get it they tend to stick with it.