Australian Rugby / RA

[swingpass]

notwithstanding the B&L tour and RWC's, personally, i think we (Rugby ie) are almost done and dusted as a professional sport in Australia, for all the reasons so eloquently posted above. RA being as cash strapped as they are, cant decide where to put the emphasis - top or bottom. they need the Wallabies to be successful to promote the game, but we have a diminishing base on which to grow it. Super Rugby isn't fit for purpose, neither generating sufficient interest/income to be self sufficient, nor providing enough game time/competition/coaching expertise for the players to develop. imo a national club competition wont cut it either. in the not too distant future i envisage a semi-pro comp with the best players all being OS (NZ,Europe,Japan) pros and all eligible for the Wallabies.

 

[wamberal99]

I "liked" your analysis, but I did not like your prediction (although it is pretty likely). If that makes sense.

 

[dru]

notwithstanding the B&L tour and RWC's, personally, i think we (Rugby ie) are almost done and dusted as a professional sport in Australia, for all the reasons so eloquently posted above. RA being as cash strapped as they are, cant decide where to put the emphasis - top or bottom. they need the Wallabies to be successful to promote the game, but we have a diminishing base on which to grow it. Super Rugby isn't fit for purpose, neither generating sufficient interest/income to be self sufficient, nor providing enough game time/competition/coaching expertise for the players to develop. imo a national club competition wont cut it either. in the not too distant future i envisage a semi-pro comp with the best players all being OS (NZ,Europe,Japan) pros and all eligible for the Wallabies.

I can't click "like" to this post but it doesn't mean I don't sympathise. It is a real worry.

 

[LevitatingSocks]

It's been coming for a long time Dru. The fear of injury at scrum time by mothers, the reduction of school participation both in State and Private schools. Particularly where many Asian boys in Private schools prefer soccer. The abysmal lack of focus on coaching and reffing at school and clubs. These are the foundation issues and as rugby is not popular with youngsters, who seem to prefer basketball, taking tall potential 2nd rowers and other sports soccer and league taking young athletes, then the lack of transition from mini to schools to clubs to Super Rugby ensures we are losing ground.
I understand the RU putting harsher rules to reduce head issues but that just highlights people's fears about our game.
We need to start at the school level and promote a rebuild of intra-school competitions well supported by the relevant state RU.
In the short term a focus on making Super Rugby a fun night out as Force Fan has shown in a video.

might help things.

It's a more peripheral issue but I think rugby also lacks any sort of cultural grip for guys under 30 as well. I've seen more NRL, basketball, or soccer jerseys at training than I've seen Super Rugby kit. Can't tell you how many people I know that play rugby but follow the Broncos or South Sydney instead of a Super Rugby team.

I was at a music festival the other day and saw every sports jersey under the sun except for rugby. I don't know how you fix that.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I’d agree about Super Rugby but the Wallabies jerseys get defrosted after a good performance. Problem is it’s older blokes and kids under 12 who got dragged into this life.

You’re right about the U30. From 20-30 is pretty bare.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

notwithstanding the B&L tour and RWC's, personally, i think we (Rugby ie) are almost done and dusted as a professional sport in Australia, for all the reasons so eloquently posted above. RA being as cash strapped as they are, cant decide where to put the emphasis - top or bottom. they need the Wallabies to be successful to promote the game, but we have a diminishing base on which to grow it. Super Rugby isn't fit for purpose, neither generating sufficient interest/income to be self sufficient, nor providing enough game time/competition/coaching expertise for the players to develop. imo a national club competition wont cut it either. in the not too distant future i envisage a semi-pro comp with the best players all being OS (NZ,Europe,Japan) pros and all eligible for the Wallabies.

We need to forget about the national club comp or a third tier which is something I've advocated for over a long period of time and switch focus to to supporting the base and bolstering the JNRC structure. The first is by redirecting the resources we would spend on any club comp to the village clubs working with those with and without junior sections on strategies to draw in more kids and adult players. Start with looking at ways to retain what we have and competition structures designed to draw specifically more kids to the game.

Using Sydney as an example. I would start this by identifying the exact number of active clubs in each metro area. Those with junior sections and those without. I would then divide them up using the districts club zones to identify how many are within each zone. To start you would structure them to fit but this would be done as a planning tool to look to grow the number of clubs within each to 10-12 junior (all linked to a local subbies club in some manner) clubs at the least. That's the long term goal. This division would also include Penrith and the Macarthur. I suggest junior clubs as this would allow for some creative structuring of competitions. I would actually look to leverage something like 10s which allows for more teams with fewer numbers to start. This would work in every major capital and regional city to similar extent. Though a little differently as the number of clubs are vastly different so the goal there would be to increase the numbers at each age group. Take the Illawarra for example. There has traditionally been 12 clubs in the region. Most if not all with juniors. Vincentia and Avondale may not have. There's also been floater clubs come and go like Wollondilly. The first goal would be to get all active clubs running juniors with a team at each age grade. Then look to bring the likes of Wollondilly back online. The north of the Wollondilly Shire population is set to grow a lot in the next 10 years.

Beyond that, a long time ago someone once provided some detail on a upskilling program provided by Hockey Australia. We need to emulate that. A program open to all regardless of whether they play rep Rugby or not. Upskill the base and you will inevitably produce better rep players.

In terms of elite pathways. The JNRC with the 16s and 19s is a good start. But it needs to expanded in terms of schedule run over two windows of 4 games allowing for home and away fixtures with finals. It also needs to be expanded in group included to involve U15s,17s and 18s. Get kids in the system and develop them up.

In terms of the professional game. If we're going to be tied to SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) long term then it needs to involve a full home and away domestic segment plus games against NZ for 16 regular season games plus a Cup element involving the League one sides (12 SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) and 12 JRLO teams in 8 pools of 3 home and away for four games) to give our player a minimum of 20 games a season. Potentially running the Cup comp independently post SRP (Super Rugby Pacific). Alongside this a SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) A comp needs to be initiated.

 

[stillmissit]

You’re right about the U30. From 20-30 is pretty bare.

That is the big issue, we are bare but still functioning. I watched the first Bledisloe of 23 again this morning. There were many errors but the guys looked competitive with little structure, poor D and slow breakdown work.
I am hopeful that a decent coach can fix those issues, the bit that worries me is the top 2".

 

[half]

WCR

I don't think hockey is a good example, hockey has far fewer players, and almost no identifiable teams and tournaments aside from the Olympics.

The hockey concept is good but far to small for our purposes.

The better local systems mostly stem out of specific academies developed and funded by clubs.

AFL in particular have scouts everywhere looking for good players from 13 to 16 from all codes and drag them into AFL programs as much for AFL as to keep them away from other codes. The AFL academies are also excellent.

The NRL is similar to the AFL, another trick the NRL do is loan players out to lower leagues, a client of mine roughly 8 years ago had a son playing SG Bull and Jersey Fleg for Parramatta, he did not make the cut to the senior team but they thought he had talent so they paid half is wage at Camden.

Football with by a considerable distance the biggest player base, identified coaching as a huge issue, and paid people years ago, to develop for them and age by age development program for everyone to follow, by and large it worked.

More recently Basketball, has been identifying talent keeping them in local Basketball teams, and away from mostly Cricket and AFL. Further Basketball has been faced with a similar issue to Football as massive player base, and how do you get the message out to so many.

WRC be it AFL, NRL, Football & Basketball all have a local domestic competition to aspire to, and further these same clubs look to identify future talent and further develop their skills in their academies.

From my own local experience, Eastwood Rugby used to help train or more specifically help with what to and how to coach local sides. No idea if they still do it. It worked quite well.

 

[oztimmay]

In terms of the professional game. If we're going to be tied to SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) long term then it needs to involve a full home and away domestic segment plus games against NZ for 16 regular season games plus a Cup element involving the League one sides (12 SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) and 12 JRLO teams in 8 pools of 3 home and away for four games) to give our player a minimum of 20 games a season. Potentially running the Cup comp independently post SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific). Alongside this a SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) A comp needs to be initiated.

This is one of the most important things we must consider to grow the financial stability of Rugby. Seven games for our professional teams is not enough for the fans who want to see high-quality games for most of the year, the playing squads who want meaningful game time, and our clubs who need to make a decent profit to become sustainable.

Home and away, finals and cross-comp matches make great sense and are something to play for, other than a nice trophy. More matches of good quality lead to greater interest from broadcasters and better TV rights deals.

Now, someone make this happen!

 

[swingpass]

i posted this earlier on in the thread,

"to my mind one of the glaring issues is that the top players (Wallabies aside) simply do not play enough rugby.

given the thousand of words written, i am sure a format such as this has already been posited and disposed of, but here goes. on the assumption that Super Rugby Pacific doesn't fall over, RA are committed to it for the next 10 (is that correct?). need full round home and away of Super ie 22 games + finals - top 6 only. Then what about a simple "Super Au" to follow, home and away, call them NSW (Tahs), Qld (Reds), ACT (Brums), Vic And WA, include the Drua if you wish, thats another 8 -10 pro games for the Super rugby squads, combine it with womens and or U20's for double / triple headers, play it at smaller venues (eg, Leichart, Ballymore, wherever). Club rugby continues as is or develops into a nationwide competition ($$$$ from whom). During the inbound international tours the "A" team play a 3 test series against one of Tonga, Fiji, Samoa on a rotating basis. That would keep the upper echelons playing until the EOYT, keep the non Wallaby super players occupied, playing a higher standard than Shute Shield, Hospital Cup or John Dent, Dewar, etc and help develop the fringe players, keeps the interstate rivalries and punter interest, caveat: i have no idea how much this would cost or how this would be funded or whether RUPA would simply say no. this is not the NPC by another name"

 

[Adam84]

Might be a bit despondent, but really can't help but starting this year feeling that we are in the last few years of Super Rugby and professional rugby in Australia.

There's been almost zero media coverage of the Super Rugby teams in local news outside of financial troubles, it's the off-season and the teams/players have completely disappeared from the headlines except when it's to talk about financial issues. Which is at odds with the off-season coverage the NRL/AFL receive.

With the rumours of financial issues and massive debt out of Melbourne, and all teams struggling financially to some degree, declining public interest and corporate support seemingly declining as well, it's hard to see any kind of uplift in broadcast rights when they're up for negotiation in 2026. B&I Lions and 2027 RWC might buy time but won't change much since we're committed to a dying model domestically...

 

[Tomikin]

Might be a bit despondent, but really can't help but start this year feeling we are in the last few years of Super Rugby and professional rugby in Australia.

There's been almost zero media coverage of the Super Rugby teams in local news outside of financial troubles, it's the off-season and the teams/players have completely disappeared from the headlines except when it's to talk about financial issues. Which is at odds with the off-season coverage the NRL/AFL receive.

With the rumours of financial issues and massive debt out of Melbourne, and all teams struggling financially to some degree, declining public interest and corporate support seemingly declining as well, it's hard to see any kind of uplift in broadcast rights when they're up for negotiation in 2026. B&I Lions and 2027 RWC might buy time but won't change much since we're committed to a dying model domestically...

Tend to agree think we might be on the death bed for rugby. Going to just try and enjoy it while it lasts..

 

[Adam84]

Yeah, likewise..

 

[dru]

What a depressing AND realistic page of comments.

We need to forget about the national club comp or a third tier which is something I've advocated for over a long period of time and switch focus to to supporting the base and bolstering the JNRC structure.

WCR with easily the most important. We really needed that domestic comp to have been done years ago. We'd be hitting a nadir at professional level but be better positioned and likely not having fallen so far. Now though as a national focus it just is not Super.I'd add to WCRs suggestion that in the JNRC focus and pathway, we will not likely hold the best talent as it is a competition we cant win. This development is going to take time.

It's a more peripheral issue but I think rugby also lacks any sort of cultural grip for guys under 30 as well. I've seen more NRL, basketball, or soccer jerseys at training than I've seen Super Rugby kit. Can't tell you how many people I know that play rugby but follow the Broncos or South Sydney instead of a Super Rugby team.

I was at a music festival the other day and saw every sports jersey under the sun except for rugby. I don't know how you fix that.

This is a symptom, not a cause. Now some comments I cant "like" but support with resignation:

Might be a bit despondent, but really can't help but starting this year feeling that we are in the last few years of Super Rugby and professional rugby in Australia.

Tend to agree think we might be on the death bed for rugby. Going to just try and enjoy it while it lasts..

Yeah, likewise..

+1

 

[stillmissit]

I think the death of Rugby is vastly overrated.......Have a small amount of faith..

 

[Derpus]

Overestimated...?

 

[Tomikin]

I think the death of Rugby is vastly overrated.......Have a small amount of faith..

Ive moved on from faith, and care.. I'm just going to enjoy the rugby while it lasts.

There's only a few things that will stop me watching and supporting.

Brumbies merger
Rugby Australia disappears completely

Looking forward to lions tour too

 

[Brumby Runner]

Greatly exaggerated I think are the words.

 

[KOB1987]

Yes I think the holiday alcohol consumption 'hang-xiety' is causing a bit of an exaggeration. The code is not healthy here but it's not dead either. The right people with the right solution can revive it, we just aren't sure who the right people are and what the right solution is.

 

[Mr Pilfer]

There are still some positive areas so not all doom and gloom. Over here in the West, Junior rugby is booming, this is the 1 state where participation numbers are growing, The Western Force have just become the first club to sign Female players on a multi year contract and they are heavily promoting the Sevens that is on here over the Australia Day Long Weekend. We just hope that the new RugbyAU hierarchy is not going to only focus on Sydney and forget about the rest. We still have the same competitive threats from AFL, Soccer, Basketball but luckily Rugby League is not big here.

I like the idea from Rodha above, I have always thought giving the Kiwi's more teams would be a good idea to spread their talent and help make us more competitive. Winning is a habit and brings crowds