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Bob Dwyer on the Bok vs ABs

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fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Nice article

http://www.heavensgame.com/bob-dwyer-analysis/all-blacks-show-the-way-bob-dwyer-analysis

I’m travelling in Europe at the moment – on rugby business – and all the talk around the place centres on the quality of the All Black performance last weekend. Indeed the Springboks were totally outplayed by a focussed All Black performance, which was based on quickly recycled ball at the tackle contest and driving tackles which made it difficult for the Springboks to do the same.

For some years now, I have been posing the question to anyone who will listen, “Do you think that quick recycle ball at the tackle contest will help your attack?” The response has always been, “Of course!” My follow-up question, “Why then do you deliberately slow your own ball down?”, has been greeted with incredulity and perhaps some suspicion.

But this is indeed the truth of the vast majority of rugby performance and coaching around the entire rugby world, at all levels from schools to internationals. I consistently see high level coaches teaching “bridging” at the tackle contest, deliberately slowing down the reuse of their own phase ball.

At all levels, week in, week out, I see scrum halves conduct some weird sort of ritual behind their forward pack, with the ball sitting available at their feet. I saw Danny Care, England’s scrum-half, once take the time to pull up both of his socks, before deciding to clear the ball. Indeed, Will Genia – who was in world’s best form throughout the Super14 season – played in this way, in the recent (losing) test against England.

A couple of teams in the last year or so have made some progress away from this “stop-start” game and moved toward a fluent attacking game.

Those teams, South Africa and New Zealand, have clearly recognised the advantages of such an attack philosophy, and, importantly, the elements which are essential to successful execution of such a philosophy. Accurate support lines are vital – interestingly, superior speed and fitness are not essential; it’s more in the eyes and the mind, rather than in the legs and the lungs. Numbers, especially numbers of forwards, at the tackle contest is another necessary component. This quality was traditionally at the heart of All Black rugby but, until recently, had strangely disappeared from their play. Their (New Zealand’s) performances in the recent Junior World Cup final and in last Saturday’s test, surely have shown the world – hopefully, once and for all – that we have all been going down a false path and we need to urgently change course.

“Continuous Play” is a consistently recurring theme in my Practice Sessions. There is a world of difference between multiple phases of play - remember the Brumbies twenty recycles, going nowhere, in the Super14 final v the Crusaders, a few years back – and the sort of continuous play evidenced by the two New Zealand performances referred to above. This stunningly successful philosophy, with accurate execution, is distinguished by a continuity of pressure, both physical and mental, on opposition defences with a maximum of off-loads and mauls, a minimum of ruck ball and a total absence of “voluntary tackles”.

‘Driving the other mob backwards’ is an essential component of ‘ taking your own team forward’ and New Zealand were well on top in this area. Low body position and good leg drive, in numbers, gave the All Blacks the launching pad for their attacks – and, indeed, halted many Springbok attacks! Keiran Read’s development as a No.8, during his Crusaders’ Super14 season, has been most interesting and has added another dimension to the All Black pack. Tom Donnelly promised much last season and has progressed even further – they’ve been looking for a new lock for a couple of seasons now. Kevin Mealamu looks a lot more trim and focussed, and, consequently, is playing a lot better. I’m not convinced about the All Black scrum, despite the good results which they produced last weekend. Tony Woodcock still has his left hand on the ground a lot of the time and I saw Owen Franks slip his bind more than once, on the tight-head side. Richie McCaw spent most of the night in the front row of his scrum, presumably to help Franks. Alun Lewis and his assistants clearly saw no problem with any of these infringements – or did they remember that Paddy O’Brien will not tolerate any criticism of his old mate’s scrum.

The other outstanding factor which I took from the All Black performance, applied not to ‘ensemble play’, but to individuals. Quality footwork was in evidence right across the New Zealand team, from the front-row to the fullback. Half-breaks consistently picked up a half-metre or more through the tackle line and gave the ‘go forward’ that all attacks are looking for. This is an important and often neglected area of preparation, which all teams at all levels would do well to include. My website has a section entitled SAQ – Speed, Agility, Quickness – which is a comprehensive programme, with specific application to rugby. I instituted this programme at Leicester Tigers, way back in 1997, with outstanding results.

So much for the All Blacks. What about the Springboks?

They started the game well and exposed the All Black defence on the edges of the pack, but after Botha’s yellow card, they were well and truly outmuscled - and it is rare that we can say that. Significantly, there were other occasions of similar importance, effecting both teams, where yellow cards were not given!

I fear that they have a problem with selection. John Smit was way off the pace – again! Fourie du Preez has been impossible to replace, and surely there is a better three-quarter line in RSA than the one chosen last weekend.

There may be one plus for the Boks. Just as Burger’s suspension last year gave Heinrich Brussow his opportunity, Bakkies Botha’s suspension will open the way for Andries Bekker or Danie Roussow and they will serve the team better. There is no place in the game for Botha’s behavoir and it was far from a ‘first offence’.
 

rsea

Darby Loudon (17)
What's a three quarter line?
Interesting article. I thought SA were off the pace and struggled to get momentum without dupreez's box kicks but I take his point about faster recycling. It's infuriating watching scrum halves kill momentum needlessly.
 

MajorlyRagerly

Trevor Allan (34)
Very typical Dwyer p.o.v on the rugby world. Comes across like all that was good is something he pioneered, with a couple of jibes in the middle. It's a cracking ego he's got.

Massive respect for this guy as a coach, but as a commentator, he's as predictable as a Marto/Kearns/Clarke commentary.
 

naza

Alan Cameron (40)
Interesting article by Bob but he's kind of missing the point. The All Blacks won because they won the physical contests. And its not about numbers, its about physicality, intensity and aggression. Quick clean ball is the prize for winning the contest. With quick clean ball, you get over the advantage line easier, which makes retaining quick ball easier ad finitum.

The Boks are a bit arrogant in that they've no flyer at flanker. The Boks love to pick the biggest most monstrous pack they can and then are surprised when they are beaten to the breakdown all night. Not the smartest approach against the Kiwis, who live to ruck.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
There may be one plus for the Boks. Just as Burger’s suspension last year gave Heinrich Brussow his opportunity, Bakkies Botha’s suspension will open the way for Andries Bekker or Danie Roussow and they will serve the team better. There is no place in the game for Botha’s behavoir and it was far from a ‘first offence’.

This gives me the shits. As soon as one drops, another even better one stands up.
 

Scotty

David Codey (61)
Agree with Naza on this. At least 50% of the time that halfs slow the ball down is because the ruck is a mess, there is no clean ball, or there are no support players in place. This mainly comes from losing that physical contest and impact. He conveniently ignored this.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Interesting article by Bob but he's kind of missing the point. The All Blacks won because they won the physical contests. And its not about numbers, its about physicality, intensity and aggression. Quick clean ball is the prize for winning the contest. With quick clean ball, you get over the advantage line easier, which makes retaining quick ball easier ad finitum.

The Boks are a bit arrogant in that they've no flyer at flanker. The Boks love to pick the biggest most monstrous pack they can and then are surprised when they are beaten to the breakdown all night. Not the smartest approach against the Kiwis, who live to ruck.

Lowe had been pretty effective for the Stormers getting loads of turnovers all season, the ABs just didn't let him near it.

I like the AB/Kiwi comment about dominating the 12 inches over the ball. We in Aus often transfer it back, the Kiwis try to drive over
 

naza

Alan Cameron (40)
Lowe had been pretty effective for the Stormers getting loads of turnovers all season, the ABs just didn't let him near it.

I like the AB/Kiwi comment about dominating the 12 inches over the ball. We in Aus often transfer it back, the Kiwis try to drive over

Louw is listed at the Boks website as 114 kgs. The key for the Bok flankers really is that the Boks didn't defend like the Stormers. Harder to pilfer when you are making grasping desperation tackles rather than pouring into the tackle zone with the ball carrier being driven backwards.

The Kiwi ruck philosophy is something we should definitely imitate. What I love about it is that it stops the opponents momentum by forcing the opposing line to move backwards a foot or two - its those little things that can make a big difference. We're lucky to get 2 forwards to the ruck who then proceed to lean & bridge.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
The Boks are a bit arrogant in that they've no flyer at flanker. The Boks love to pick the biggest most monstrous pack they can and then are surprised when they are beaten to the breakdown all night. Not the smartest approach against the Kiwis, who live to ruck.


Louw lead the Super 14 in pilfers. He ripped the French a new one.

His workrate was incredible and he is more than fast enough.

He got blown off the ball because he had no help.

Arrogance has nothing to do with it. With Brussow out he is the best option in South Africa and was duly selected because he was the form 7 in the whole Super 14.

He has had one bad test. If he fails again I'd be the first to say he is not up to it.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
The Kiwi ruck philosophy is something we should definitely imitate. What I love about it is that it stops the opponents momentum by forcing the opposing line to move backwards a foot or two - its those little things that can make a big difference. We're lucky to get 2 forwards to the ruck who then proceed to lean & bridge.

Which is all the easier if the opposition does not front at the tackle point. Which we did not do. I don't see it as a grand philosphy. Its' a matter of making the first tackle (preferably offensively) and deciding how many bodies you will commit and then doing it properly. We just didn't rock up in the collision and they exploited it perfectly.
 

ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
The offload game is something Henry has been using since 04-05. We even took this high tempo game into the 07 WC and used it well even in that 1st half of the QF. Went away from it when it counted though....

Last year the execution and better aggression from the Boks and Frenchies did us over.

The combination of an uptempo offload attacking game with good execution is key today. And I think that is the essence of Dwyer's article
 

Gagger

Nick Farr-Jones (63)
Staff member
Interesting article by Bob but he's kind of missing the point. The All Blacks won because they won the physical contests. And its not about numbers, its about physicality, intensity and aggression. Quick clean ball is the prize for winning the contest. With quick clean ball, you get over the advantage line easier, which makes retaining quick ball easier ad finitum.

I think he meant exactly that when he wrote this

‘Driving the other mob backwards’ is an essential component of ‘ taking your own team forward’ and New Zealand were well on top in this area. Low body position and good leg drive, in numbers, gave the All Blacks the launching pad for their attacks – and, indeed, halted many Springbok attacks!

(we watched the game together and Bob wrote the article at my dining room table, so I know he agreed with your point anyway Naza)
 

lonhro10

Frank Nicholson (4)
Nice enough read. Dwyer lost me a few years back though when he compared Ryan McGoldrick to Tim Horan...
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
What's a three quarter line?

Geez – that brings back memories.

The terminology goes back to the early days of rugby when they used a few players behind the guys in front trying to force the ball up the field together. Since they were behind their team mates they were called backs. One guy returned the ball to the moving scrimmage of players if it came out and another kicked at goal. They were not far back from the scrum of players and were called half backs. The fellow who fielded the ball from kicks from the other side was further behind and called a full back.

When it was more common to run with the ball, more backs played outside the scrum of forwards. The players between the two halves and the full back were called three-quarters (being the average of half and full). One three-quarter played wide close to one touch line and another close to the other one. These backs on the wings were called wing three-quarters but became known as wings or wingers later on. The three-quarter playing closer to the middle of the ground was the centre three-quarter.

Terminlogy differed from country to country. In NZ they called the two players between the single half back and centre three-quarter, five eighths – 1st 5/8ths and 2nd 5/8ths, since 5/8ths is the average of ½ and ¾. Further out from them was the centre three-quarter which in recent decades has been shortened to “centre”. To Kiwis “centre” is always the player in the 13 jersey and not to be confused with the 2nd 5/8 wearing the 12 jersey.

That's a long story of explaining that the three quarter line is the 11, 13 and 14. It's interesting that Dwyer, who is younger than I am used that old terminology, whereas I never do. Maybe it's more of a British thing and Bob has spent a lot of time in Britain.

Even in fairly recent times one would hear the late Bill McLaren, a Scot, saying so and so was the centre three-quarter. At other times you'd hear him say a team had scored a four goals and a try and won 23-0.

But that's another long story.

.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
Geez – that brings back memories. ....The terminology goes back to the early days of rugby when they used a few players behind the guys in front trying to force the ball up the field together. Since they were behind their team mates they were called backs. One guy returned the ball to the moving scrimmage of players if it came out and another kicked at goal. They were not far back from the scrum of players and were called half backs. The fellow who fielded the ball from kicks from the other side was further behind and called a full back.....When it was more common to run with the ball, more backs played outside the scrum of forwards. The players between the two halves and the full back were called three-quarters (being the average of half and full). One three-quarter played wide close to one touch line and another close to the other one. These backs on the wings were called wing three-quarters but became known as wings or wingers later on. The three-quarter playing closer to the middle of the ground was the centre three-quarter

Lee, I'd like to thank you for this and the many fine things I have learnt about the game and current players etc from reading your excellent posts to GAGR.
 

ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
Those between the five-eighth and the fullback. It's a term used in rugby league. Apparently.

It was also used in rugby. Some ol timers still occassionally say about a player that he is a "centre-three quarter" type

Edit: I should have read the thread. Lee summed it up and without digressing either :)
 
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