1. Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Brisbane Junior Club Rugby 2017 - U13 to U17

Discussion in 'Club Rugby' started by Garry Owens, Feb 20, 2017.

  1. Sunny Ted Fahey (11)

    Likes Received:
    67
    Had word that the QRU development officer requested /pushed for the two lads who didn't play this season, nor are they financial, must be selected as they are in line for the U16 Qld Reds teams to play in September, and can do so as they just can,
    How nice is that guys, two GPS kids free ride to the top without putting a boot on or paying one cent in fees in club rugby, yet they get a spot on a BJRU team just because.
    Good job QRU. keeping the club only riff raff out of your beloved elite game.
  2. Garry Owens John Solomon (38)

    Likes Received:
    708
    But I didn't make any mention of GPS Rugby

    I was talking more generally about Schools Rugby ( which is not played in State Schools in any organised competition )

    And yes , Sunny , I am generally aware of a number of these boys and schools involved etc and I guess my only original point was that some of their peers are already playing School First XV or are getting ready for their First XV season.

    You may be right . You may be wrong . But yours, and Chalkie's is a subjective point that is not able to be proven one way or the other. And whether you guys agree with it not , the 25 to 30 kids that have just played or are preparing for their School First XV season this year as a 16 year old , are for now , considered the top of their year group pile.

    At a further estimate , I reckon there would probably be about the same number again playing Div 1 Club , two thirds of which , will roll through their school season in AIC or GPS Rugby and where the balance "best in show" are at a non Association school and where Club Rugby is their only platform

    So of this remaining third in U16 Div 1 Rugby not at an AIC or GPS School that are at the top end of the talent pool - we may be talking about ten to a dozen boys . Tops.

    I acknowledge there may be a late bloomer or two playing at a lower level of competition . Literally .

    So I think it is fair to say that , Rugby , with it's financial limitations - and by consequence , meagre resources , must learn and find ways to be efficient in its Talent ID and development pathways .

    And it simply isn't efficient to be spending a whole heap of time and energy in running Development Officers in ButtF**K nowhere or in the State Schools in the Rugby League heartlands ( as presently constituted ) or for that matter in mid to late teen "Club" pathways in the City v Country show.

    With the financial reality that every layer of Rugby is faced with and their consequent inability to operate and develop true development and meaningful pathway ...they are better off ( from a business case perspective not necessarily an individual and specific Rugby consideration - they are two different things ) letting the Schools do the harvesting an hope the Clubs pick up those who slip through the net and retain them through Colts , Grade and then next level ( whether its NRC or whatever ) next level again ( Super Rugby ) and then next level again ( International ) if they are good enough

    And if you lose a smaller percentage of potential prospects who are not in the Combine Harvester that is the Schools System then that is the opportunity cost that in the business case reality has to be foregone .

    I understand that this reality may not sit well with you , Chalkie and others that bang the Club Drum - and I don't say that facetiously , but , another reality when Club Advocates go to town , is , more often than not they are applying a logic that worked in their youth but simply doesn't work today.

    And here is where a major disconnect lies compared to what the historical reality was up until the mid to late 90's .

    Plenty of club advocates want to talk about what's wrong but none of them want to offer any solutions with a large number of stalwarts still magically expecting we're going to rock it out in the Hot Tub Time Machine and bring it back to the way it used to be

    That time has been and gone and it isn't going coming back.

    I am not anti Club . Far from it . I am anti some of the irascible blowhards that pour scorn on our young blokes and don't use their energies constructively to engage in offering ideas and initiatives within what the constraints are to try and make the game here in Australia stronger
  3. Garry Owens John Solomon (38)

    Likes Received:
    708
    INITIATIVE #1

    The ARU gets its act together with Departments of Education in QLD , NSW and Victoria and establishes Rugby Centres of Excellence in each of these Cities through the State School system , focusing on ,

    1. The 15 man game for boys and girls
    2. Sevens for Boys and Girls

    In the way that Keebra , Wavell and Coombabah are synonymous as "League" schools just apply the same "Combine Harvester" principle but concentrate the talent in one spot

    That School Team becomes a "School Club" Team with underwrite from State Government and also ARU and participates against other Club Teams in season as well as chasing informal games initially against the likes of AIC Teams in their trial season and also GPS Schools in their trial season , and , then Downlands , Ambrose Treacy as they are maturing into Senior School etc

    Rise and repeat with the equivalents in Sydney and Melbourne

    Force the Franchises in each of these States to work with the Schools Vocational Staff and use their networks to assist these kids with work experience opportunities possibly - which starts to commence some vocational / community care in these organisations - noting that League has the benefit of offering free trade or tertiary in their U20 Programs while Rugby , presently , does diddly squat

    Rome wasn't built in a day , but ultimately , some proper detailing around something such as this can only make what comes out of the CAS pool stronger.

    The CAS must get stronger and it is in the game's best interests to make it stronger , to , in time , get greater Schoolboy Reps through and then U20 Reps etc

    For who doesn't make it through that absolute top end of progression the level below at Club by natural osmosis gets stronger
  4. hepamack1975 Frank Row (1)

    Likes Received:
    1
    Club drum?
    It's not about clubs, it's about the game, the kids and the future of the game.

    First season suits those kids attending GPS schools and 2nd season those that attend AIC. Even than, schools say they support the kids playing club outside of their respective seasons but if they miss school training to attend a club training session they jeopardize their spot in the 1st 15 for their school. Miss one school training out 5 or so, you jeopardizing your spot on the 1st 15.

    As for those that dont attend GPS or AIC schools, what's their incentive to play club? If you play 1st season for a GPS aligned team, the 2nd season is almost guaranteed dead and vice versa for AIC affiliated teams.

    Kids just want to play rugby for a full season and for those kids not affiliated with GPS or AIC schools, the only alternative is Rugby League. On top of that, this is the age that a lot of kids find their feet in the game.

    We lose too many kids to league in this age group because unless your GPS or AIC affiliated you're only realistically looking at a 7 game season.

    I have a son who plays GPS rugby and love watching the games but it saddens me to see the talent and numbers we lose at this age group.

    Rugby die hard for ever.


    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
  5. Garry Owens John Solomon (38)

    Likes Received:
    708
    INITIATIVE #2

    Measure and Database your Juniors properly

    You could test, film , run something like a synergy sports marker of outputs etc across 3 x age groups from U15 to U17 /Opens covering a Top 100 for an Age Group

    So that's a quality Database / Database Management System for the future of your game at a budgeted cost of between $400K to $500K per annum

    That probably was the ARU Board's lunch budget last year

    It gives you the perfect platform to engage and communicate with the best 100 of each age group and multiply this over time and a span of 5 to 6 years ("classes" )and you have a direct communication / engagement platform with between say 700 to 800 prequalified players - which essentially represents "a generation / era" of Wallaby prospects

    By hard Database grinding and minding you should be able to manage / filter the best 10% of your Database - and perhaps that is a starting point for operational excellence that feeds over into performance excellence

    So

    • Engage the viewing media ( film / production ) to X number of games per year per age group
    • Catalogue game data of designated production and efficiency markers that you develop in conjunction with a Synergy Sports type of Sports Data Business
    • Run battery testing in March and September - 40m sprint ( broken down into acceleration and velocity data at 10m intervals ) broad jump , vertical leap , 3 cone agility drill, 1km shuttle run , max chin up , max bench /squat/ deadlift total
    Design and run your follow up Clinics around this Data ...possibly in conjunction with the AIS
  6. hepamack1975 Frank Row (1)

    Likes Received:
    1
    Wow, impressive.

    I'm a simple man, so my input is as well. Where does club rugby come into it. School rugby only lasts until 17/18 years of age.

    Club is their from 5 until 65 and beyond, surely it would be better to have club as the driver or at least a major contributor to whole development of the game and players.

    In Rugby League, its the clubs that drive the development and future of the game. Schools nurture the talent but beyond that its in the hands of the clubs and NRL.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
    Chalkie likes this.
  7. Chalkie Frank Row (1)

    Likes Received:
    4
    And this is the sort of thing I in counted all of the time when I was part of the Rep program in our previous NSW union.

    Lets just take my son as an example. He has played NSW State Titles since U12's and was part of the U15 Gold Cup squad until he broke his shoulder. At the end of last season in NSW he was 187 cm, 77 kg now 6 months later he is 191 cm 94 kg and runs the 100m in the mid 11's. He has developed quite late and has missed the boat for GPS and with no U17 State Titles in QLD what is there for him to look forward to in Rugby. Yes I know that he still has 2 bites at the cherry for U18 School Rep as he is still in grade 10 but other than that there is nothing.

    He played school league or any league for that matter for the first time this year and has been asked to come and play for a Brisbane Div 1 league team. So the big question is do we change codes and go were he has been noticed or do we stay with union. I think the BJRU will make our mind up for us, if there is no U17 comp next year he will go to league.

    Rugby seems to be it's own worst enemy, were as league seems to be doing all the right things. For a sport that is primarily full of intelligent private school boys, how is it that we are being out preformed by those public school thug ball players when it comes to promoting and developing our games. Rugby has an agenda and League does not, Rugby is elitist while League is inclusive.

    The ARU and all other unions in Australia should be ashamed.
  8. Garry Owens John Solomon (38)

    Likes Received:
    708
    You seem to be bitter Chalkie

    If what you say is dinky di I am sure a number of GPS Schools would be interested in your lad across Rugby and Track and Field / Rowing ( one of ) AIC Schools too which is perhaps more conjucive for those that want to straddle across both codes and have a two bob each way bet. Some have higher bars than the others around "type" and ability to positively contribute to broader curriculum and school culture , others - not so much

    Why not pick up the phone and take the initiative ?

    Or is it a matter of principle as per your aforementioned reasoning as to what is wrong with Australian Rugby , who is to blame and where the problem stems from ?

    If it is then the system isn't going to change in 12 months to suit how you would like to see it and you may have already flagged the answer to your own question
  9. Chalkie Frank Row (1)

    Likes Received:
    4
    I am an IGS old boy 85-89 and my son has been offered a 1/2 bursary already. I have no issue with the GPS system or what if offers the players that are in the system. My issue is that the powers that be have forgotten about everyone else?
  10. Garry Owens John Solomon (38)

    Likes Received:
    708
    Yes , I had picked up earlier in the thread that you were a GPS Alumni yourself

    I am confused . It seems your lad missed out on U16 Rep and you talk about changing to League because he has already been "recognised" there and he is wanted. But then IGS obviously have shown him recognition as well by offering half bursary .

    Anyway ..

    1. Do you accept that the game is broke ?

    2. If you accept No 1 then do you then accept that it doesn't make much sense spending what limited resources you do have trying to uncover needles in haystacks - based on the simple principal of efficiency ?

    Whether will like it or not the schools are a defacto combine harvester for the ARU until this dysfunctional misaligned phenomena ( I would not even call it a relationship ) can complete when they are 17/18 and they are on their way into an U20 program ( Top Talent as determined by the Franchises in who they select / who they want ) or at Colts / Prems at Club

    Junior Rep is sort of relevant up until U14 - but by then these fields are plundered and 95% of City Reps are at GPS or AIC Schools and 50% to 65% of Country Reps end up the same.

    From U15 onwards it's sort of a waste of time and Schoolboys ( including Combined Schools ) is the pathway until they hit U20 / Colts .

    But then I suspect you know this well judging from your disclosure to where you've been and what you've done

    I am not unsympathetic to the issue . I just don't see much point in firing shots and demanding change that has ( in my opinion ) zero chance of being made in the short to medium term

    There are a whole bunch of ideas and possible initiatives that may , in time , redress the balance

    But it needs positive engagement and a willingness of many to get involved to create that momentum of change

    Private Schools are never going to be dismantled as a significant contributor to what flows upstream - so there is no point attacking this.

    The key is more for the ARU to engage in other alternate educational pathways where there is a better chance of creating true partnership ( State Ed ) and layering Club connectors into this mix

    A 5 year plan to get Combined Schools to base camp
    Chalkie likes this.
  11. Chalkie Frank Row (1)

    Likes Received:
    4
    I like and understand what you are saying, my comments are based on my time spent on the inside of club Rep programs and how dysfunctional they are. I am just so frustrated at the current state of affairs and the lack of future direction being show by the ARU.
  12. Old Red Allen Oxlade (6)

    Likes Received:
    25
    GO makes it sound like the boys walk out of GPS "combine harvester" and straight into super rugby contracts when they graduate.
    GPS only becomes a focus from U15's, because they say it is, no doubt they produce and nurture talent but, it's not as rosy as they make out and guys by graduation time, most, not all GPS boys are doing a 180 and heading back to club in belief they will all be premier colts players, again not true.
    Reality is for a short term, in junior/school level they may get to enjoy some bragging rights and BAM, it comes to a crunching halt when they return to club, I've seen many a boy and parent spit the dummy when little John from GPS this or REP team that, get punted into Colts 1 or 2. Seen it first hand plenty of times, so over all guys, if your kids love the game, stick with it as playing club rugby at a colts is like a restart on a level playing field.
  13. Garry Owens John Solomon (38)

    Likes Received:
    708
    Reading is fundamental as they say Old Red

    I never actually said that

    I don't need to repeat it - it is there fairly plainly
  14. Confucius Say Larry Dwyer (12)

    Likes Received:
    50
    Was in attendance at the finals series for BJRU today. I hope Wests spend some of the revenue they collected on drainage and areas for the team to do the proper warm up. One team on a hill and one team in the trees at the end of the playing pitch.

    No warning sign on the car park when driving in to say most of the area was closed. ?? Did they know?

    Didn't the club just spend millions and yet there was the pool of water everywhere and nowhere for the boy to warm up. What a farce!
  15. Sunny Ted Fahey (11)

    Likes Received:
    67
    God dam, what happened to the U16 BJRU teams this weekend, even with all those GPS kids playing and the inclusion of the ring in players put in by the QRU, well it looks like both teams will miss the final again, maybe time for some new coaches and selectors, since they continue to get it wrong.
  16. Confucius Say Larry Dwyer (12)

    Likes Received:
    50
    Or perhaps well done to the strength of the sunshine and Gold Coast teams?

    The selectors can only pick from those available and it was obviously a weakened pool because groups of boys opted out of playing.

    However, I couldn't foresee too many from this brisbane pool picked in QLD teams but the regional boys have had chance to shine against reletively less opposition.

    Bring on the GPS competition and the u15 state title competition. The caliber will be the better one.
  17. Sunny Ted Fahey (11)

    Likes Received:
    67
    Very true, Both Coast teams were my pick to fight it out for the title, and Qld country should be a very strong team again. As for Brissy teams, there was plenty of talented boys not picked in the first place and selectors and coaches need to be accountable for that now, plenty who busted a gut all season to only see boys put in who DIDN'T play a game this season, yet get put into BJRU team.
    Old Red likes this.
  18. Old Red Allen Oxlade (6)

    Likes Received:
    25
    Agree Sunny, finishing 3rd and 7th is a fail, time for a clean out!
  19. rugbysthewinner Peter Burge (5)

    Likes Received:
    9

    What ring in players?? I thought all the boys had played at least 3 games this first season???
  20. Sunny Ted Fahey (11)

    Likes Received:
    67
    It may surprise you, but at least 3 players didn't, I believe 1 signed on and played the trial game only and 2 didn't play for anyone in the 1st season. Check rugby link and you will see.

Share This Page