British & Irish Lions tour of New Zealand (2017)
- Thread starter waiopehu oldboy
- Start date
KevinO
Geoff Shaw (53)
The side that toured last november was no where near the side playing this weekend.
From an outsider looking at that side in November, and the side this weekend. They should not play under the same name.
Also have questions on the selection of someone like McKenzie, great player but were is the Maori connection? His uncle through marriage is the closest anyone has ever been able to confirm to me. So no Maori in the blood. Reading profiles his from the far south but the Maori connection is near Hamilton.
I like the idea of Maori team and everything they represent, I just can't buy into it while the selection seems so inconsistent.
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KevinO
Geoff Shaw (53)
2005 is remembered as a clean sweep 3-0 and the BOD tackle. Sir Clive stuff ups.
Not the whitewashes over the super teams or loss to the Maori.
2009 is remembered for the ROG penalty that cost them the tour.
2013 is remebered as the Lions first win since 1997. The debut of Izzy, the end of BOD. And to alot of fans Forces disrespectful selections.
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KevinO
Geoff Shaw (53)
KiwiM
Nev Cottrell (35)
They didn't play the Super teams in 05 they played provinces.
Also - I disagree - the loss to the Maori is a huge part of what that tour is remembered for - the first Lions loss on their tour and a huge turning point in the tour in the leadup to the test series.
Also - the Mckenzies do have Maori bloodlines through Ngati Tuwharetoa so saying he 'is not maori' is wrong.
KevinO
Geoff Shaw (53)
Cause there is a different forum thread for that rule.
While Payne is married to an Irish girl, kids are born in Ireland I don't believe that we even needed to have him. Pretty happy with the depth in positions he covers and his been out alot.
While I love CJ at Munster in the 8 jersey, I think POM is the best 6 option in Ireland and Europe and we have lost games by selecting him out of position and not having POM on the field for defensive line outs alone.
KevinO
Geoff Shaw (53)
So some boys from the South Island are connected to a tribe from the North Island.
Can someone show the connection other than it being added to there wiki profile? Cause my Maori mates here in Melbourne all say he should not be in the side, while my non-maori mates all say his maori though his uncle. (A couple of them admit its marriage)
You'd have to assume they did the relevant checks.
From the All Blacks website: Originally team selected was ‘loosely’ governed in terms of heritage, but now all players must have Maori whakapapa or genealogy confirmed in order to represent the side.
I'd be very surprised if his only claim to being Maori was due to a non-blood related uncle. That to me would devalue the whole concept.
From the All Blacks website: Originally team selected was ‘loosely’ governed in terms of heritage, but now all players must have Maori whakapapa or genealogy confirmed in order to represent the side.
I'd be very surprised if his only claim to being Maori was due to a non-blood related uncle. That to me would devalue the whole concept.
Dan54
Tim Horan (67)
I think KevinO someone is leading you up the garden path, anyone playing for tham have to have Maori Whakapapa and proved. I am sure in the MAB team will have his Iwi that he is tied to, and you don't get it through marriage!!
Here you go KevinO, just so you know Damian McKenzie - Waikato - Ngāti Tūwharetoa/Ngāti Tahinga.
Kev because a maori boy in Melbourne doesn't know Mckenzies Whakapapa doesn't make it so. anymore than someone told you his uncle was the only link.
Dan54
Tim Horan (67)
That shows your ignorance I am afraid Sully, I myself have a number of nieces and nephews with maori blood that are blond etc, as are the ones without, the gene that gives the blond hair etc is just quite strong in my family, as probably in McKenzie's!
With 200 years of European settlement in NZ, you'd imagine that there are a lot of people with some Maori ancestry.
Dan,not trying to be disrespectful,but to a non Kiwi what does that mean?The words "Waikato-Ngati Tuwharetoa/Ngati Tahinga" don't really mean much if you don't have a clue what it means.
KiwiM
Nev Cottrell (35)
I think you should read this article.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ttempt-haka-world-record-ahead-of-lions-match
Lions tour: Maori kaumatua Luke Crawford explains eligibility process
Luke Crawford has heard every possible question when it comes to eligibility for the New Zealand Maori team. But his seven-year stint as team kaumatua, he has also been forced to turn players away.
“The interesting thing is people look nowadays and they’ll say “there’s no way that guy is Maori,” Crawford said. “I have no issue at all with people coming and questioning things but I do have issues with people casting aspersions”.
One of Crawford’s responsibilities before the team is formally selected is ensuring every new player has some form of authentic whakapapa or Maori descent. It doesn’t matter how far back this goes, merely that it exists in the family heritage.
Crawford’s task is to simply identify the specific Maori descendent.
“They explore it themselves and I have to be satisfied the they’ve through the right process. People say ‘what if they’re lying?’ Well, I fall back on 29 years of policing, of understanding people, a lifetime of growing up Maori and having a knowledge and connections across the whole country to people who are gifted in the area of genealogy”
Waikato is his NPC team.
Ngati Tuwharetoa/Ngati Tahinga are the two tribes he is part of.
KevinO
Geoff Shaw (53)
One of my best mates who is a crazy rugby fan. Not the sort of guy who even attempts to pull off a wind up.
Damian McKenzie - Waikato (His born in Invercargill which is 1095KM away)
Brent McKenzie - His Dad, played for Southland, quite a good player who made the NZ Emerging team.
The only link to McKenzie being from Ngāti Tūwharetoa/Ngāti Tahinga is someone editing his Wiki page. I am sure you guys are right, but from an outsider view it seems every player in NZ is eligible to represent this side. As braveheart pointed out in the early days it was loosely governed.
Not ignorance. Trying to be funny. Didn't work. We have blonds too in my family. Vanuatuan heritage.
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Dan54
Tim Horan (67)
Don't worry Kev, you don't get to claim to be part of an Iwi by editing a wikipedia page, the only link he will have is through his Whakapapa, and take my word for you would get outed quite quickly if you try to claim you are part of something you not (And to be honest I actually know some of his Whanau, and if those boys aren't Maori... well). Though I know what you mean in early days I think if you looked Maori you got in. And Waikato is who he plays for, nothing to do where he was born. Just like Quade Cooper is a Queensland player and not born here?
I actually know some Maori boys that can't believe the Ioane boys are in, they sure they are Samoan, to bad their mum was a maori lady, so you see sometimes being a Maori or a rugby fan doesn't really make them experts. And to be honest many of us of Anglo/Saxon heritage expect everyone to look a certain way.