Can Cheika ball work for the Wallabies?
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Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Pure genius: we should see if we can select 15 players out of position.
You can be the founding member of the ABAT Club.
I say that not thinking that Foley is long term test solution.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Well Cheika has gone with picking a 15 as a 10 and a 15/10 as a 12 and everybody thinks it's genius and revolutionary.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
Which he was against France off the bench I think?
Quade better in contact than Foley? Better defender? Fuck there are some short memories on here, mixed in with some wild fantasy.
As for Foley being a 15 playing 10 - what the actual fuck? He was a fucking 10 at Sydney Uni then went off to play 7s (CAPTAINING HIS COUNTRY) before being selected at fullback by Michael Foley in 2012.
Give me strength...
Joeleee
Ted Fahey (11)
I don't get why people think Cheika will look after his Tahs at the RWC. Even if he happens to be doing so now (doubtful) it doesn't make sense to do it at the RWC. He will no longer be Tahs coach and all of his success as a coach will be decided on how he coaches the Wallabies. There is no way that he's going to pick Tahs players that he thinks are less capable over other players that he thinks are better. You can argue that he got the selections wrong, but the assertion that he's going to pick a 'biased' team is, to be frank, somewhat ridiculous. There's no benefit in it, he already has the pinnacle of Australian coaching, now it's about building his legacy and he will do it with the players he thinks are best for the job, let's just hope he's right.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Well considering that I referred to a 10 To'omua 12 Cooper combo. I believe that would be comparing To'omua to Foley and Cooper to Beale.
Fuck me there are some sweeping statements here considering he has only been in charge for four games (yes four....... remember that one where he picked Quade Cooper to start? Nah of course not, because he totally hates Quade, yeah?).
And of all the talk that he would only pick Tahs, or players who would 'fit his plan', he has actually picked pretty much the exact same team that Link did this year. The only blokes who have been brought in are McMahon, Horwill, Jones and Speight. All clearly Tahs players, yeah.
So I reckon we should stop talking about what we think will happen, and look at what actually has. And then take a deep breath.
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And of all the talk that he would only pick Tahs, or players who would 'fit his plan', he has actually picked pretty much the exact same team that Link did this year. The only blokes who have been brought in are McMahon, Horwill, Jones and Speight. All clearly Tahs players, yeah.
So I reckon we should stop talking about what we think will happen, and look at what actually has. And then take a deep breath.
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Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
Pfitzy, this is precisely the game plan I would hope to see the Wallabies play as well. I think most of us recognise the importance of the forwards providing front foot ball and for the backs to run the ball with skill and determination rather than engaging in a kickfest.
But atm there are only two Tahs forwards in the starting pack and potentially only TPN and Palu to come back in. Of those two, it is probably odds on that one will be on the sidelines with injury at any one time, but in any case TPN is probably on the bench behind Moore (just my presumption). Will the Wallabies' forward pack be capable of replicating the aggression shown by the Tahs' pack in the Super comp? Are there any other up and coming forwards coming through the Tahs' system who will demand selection? Or, was a large part of the Tahs' success built on the role Potgeiter played? Is Will Skelton the saviour of the Cheika game plan? Will he be able to dominate in the open to compensate for his other short comings?
The Tahs had the players to implement this game plan at Super level, but it is debatable that the Wallabies have appropriate players to run it at test level. It is likely that some compromises will need to be made.
One such compromise might be that the backline simply cannot play flat at all times. If poor forward momentum is being provided by the forwards, then the backs might have to sit a bit deeper to have space in which to work, or alternatively adopt a more kicking game plan.
I would rather see the game plan as you describe, but for the life of me I cannot see we have the forward power atm to implement it. We don't appear to have the backup props required, our locks don't play with the required aggression and if Will Skelton is the only option then we will continue to have very poor ball, or none at all, from set piece, and our back row also depends on who comes back from injury. Fardy is our best No 6 but doesn't play a similar game to Potgeiter, Higgers plays similarly with ball in hand but not with the same number of involvements and McMahon and Jones are works in progress. Hooper is almost perpetual motion but I would think Pocock would suit the Cheika game plan better if he returns to top form. Questionable. No 8? Palu, but will he stay injury free? McCalman has surprised almost everybody this tour but he is not really the line bending or breaking hard as nails No 8 that I think is required for this game plan.
I think Cheika has some very big challenges ahead of him and I won't be surprised if he has to modify his approach a bit before the RWC.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
You mean like finding any reason to pick Beale and any spot to make sure he can fit in? Yeah?
Brumby Runner
David Wilson (68)
Might not give Pfitzy strength but would definitely strengthen the Wallabies in comparison to Foley/Beale. But the right selection would be Cooper at 10 and To'omua at 12. Although, tbh that really has To'omua playing out of position. He is first and foremost a 10.
Any spot, like the bench?
I mean you would start to suspect something if he, say, tries to shoehorn him in at five eight. How weird would that be?
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That was just McKenzie trying to delay the NSW led player power push to get rid of him.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Considering there was already a squad of 32 with numerous utility players with test caps yeah.
Foley (10 & 15)
To'omua (10 & 12)
Lealiifano (10, 12, 13 & 15)
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) (12, 13, 14 & 15)
Horne (12, 13 & 14)
Many seem to think a specialist winger or outside back would have been the correct, balanced selection.
Gillys_ghost
Dave Cowper (27)
As a brumbies supporter, whos definitely seen more of To'omua and lealiifano than me, how would moving lealiifano to 10 and To'omua to 12 work for the brumbies? i really liked lealiifano at 10 during 2012, and that gives the brumbies the best centre combo in Australia. i think it should be tried.
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
Hey I've heard that story somewhere before. Like some NSW player born in Victoria claimed by QLD who agreed to try him there or something.
Never mind.
So a guy who'd been nominated for IRB Player of the Year for his work at fullback would seem like a pretty good option, then. Wonder if we have one of those floating around.
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Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
you left out the ACT - perhaps deliberately, after all it is a conspiracy theory
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Phil Waugh was nominated for IRB player of the year. Let's throw him on there too hey? Not like players form goes down over periods of 3-4 years or anything is it?
You've backed yourself into a corner TWAS. Your belief that QC (Quade Cooper) should be picked regardless means that anyone not picking him is biased and provincial.
In fact, that person is looking at a game plan and who best fits it. I'd say that in fact Cheika has done exactly the right thing giving two players who hardly set the world alight this season and then were injured gradual amounts of time. He also trains them every day, seeing them in that context too. You never know, they might even start this week.
IF those players can adapt to the game plan for the Wallabies he won't care who they are or who they play for, and neither will I. Considering neither of them have played that way for several years, it will be a challenge, but not impossible.
In the end there is bias involved in our conversation, but it's not from Cheika or me.
In fact, that person is looking at a game plan and who best fits it. I'd say that in fact Cheika has done exactly the right thing giving two players who hardly set the world alight this season and then were injured gradual amounts of time. He also trains them every day, seeing them in that context too. You never know, they might even start this week.
IF those players can adapt to the game plan for the Wallabies he won't care who they are or who they play for, and neither will I. Considering neither of them have played that way for several years, it will be a challenge, but not impossible.
In the end there is bias involved in our conversation, but it's not from Cheika or me.
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