Force vs Rebels Round 1, 2016

[Shiggins]

Well. It was 40 degrees in Perth so the guys must of Been struggling. The ball Would of Been very slippery as well. Congrats rebels.

Our biggest problem by far was accuracy at the breakdown. Way to many times did I see an isolated player at the breakdown and poor cLean outs. Take this Out of the game and it was pretty good. Really good signs. Plus we tried a few to many offloads.

Some assholes on Facebook are giving the force a really hard time about playing shit rugby last night. I would like to see them play in those Conditions for 5 minutes. We ran the ball and kicked a lot less. DHP looks great and I've been saying it for Years. The blokes a stud. Brachie has a shocker. I can see hope but he should of been pulled a lot earlier on.

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[Shiggins]

How long till we revert to punching it up the guts with pigs and using Grant to punish with penalties.

Hodgson in the post match interview talked about the new style being evident, but what's the fucking point if you make precisely zero linebreaks?

And What the fuck has SuperCoach been doing in the off season. Skills and handling were poor. Kicking was poor. Sorry Queenslanders, but I hope we get the honour of the first coach boning of the season.

The point is that you get better at it if you keep doing it. Just like The waratahs. They decided to Run everything and the skills wernt there but they came eventually and they won the title. I vote we keep Running

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[Forcefield]

Considering that the Rebels didn't have a recognised 10 for a large part of the game it is telling that they still had as much backline play as the Force did. It is one thing to change philosophy (which I am surprised after all these years Foley has actually done) it is another to equip the players with the skills and structures to execute the philosophy.

Reece Hodge played 10 at U20 level. I thought he was a truckload better than McIntyre in the 2013 JWC.

I think it is naive to assume that those skills and structures will come overnight or even from one pre-season. It took a few years for the Reds to turn what they had into the complete (enough) package that they became in 2011. Cheika coached the Waratahs to 9th in his first year at the helm and with more talented players. I'm not saying we are headed for the top, but we won't survive on a risk aversion strategy and I am happy to wait and cop loss after loss if it is in pursuit of the type of game that has a future.

For all the talk of an expansive game, I think the first proper game of the season with summer heat is not the best time/place to throw off the shackles.

 

[ChargerWA]

I'm not saying we are headed for the top, but we won't survive on a risk aversion strategy and I am happy to wait and cop loss after loss if it is in pursuit of the type of game that has a future.

.

You sir have the patience of a saint.

Because FUCK THIS SHIT. Sure Cheika coached the Tahs to 9th in his first season, and then the title in his SECOND.

Foley Is into his FOURTH season and has never done better than Cheika in his first. And to top it off now decides after 5 complete seasons as a Super head coach his game plan has been wrong all along and now is the time to change our complete strategy. Get fucked. It's the final straw, all credibility is gone for me.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

For me the surprise and disappointment was how we were murdered at the breakdown, our traditional strength. McMahon and Reid absolutely flogged us there. It seemed like each time we got into the Rebels 22 one of our blokes got isolated and turned the ball over. Significant improvement required for mine.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

McMahon and Reid absolutely flogged us there.

no disgrace, can see those two giving EVERYBODY gyp there for the next 5 bloody years, at this level and - uh oh - the one above

 

[Forcefield]

I guess that is the downside of playing with width. You need to commit fewer players to the breakdown and the ball moves away from your forwards a bit. I am confident we will learn from the experience and change the structures to mitigate the risk.

Charger- I think for the first few years, Foley coached the Force to win with the resources we had available. I think he can see the writing on the wall that this is not the future and that those stars we do produce will leave because risk aversion doesn't get them into the Wallabies. Personally, I thought that 2014 was a success and I wouldn't have complained about using a similar strategy in 2015, except that it stopped working. I would be more pissed off if Foley delivered up more of the same this year. Sure if this season is a fuck up, its probably time to move him on. I wonder if you would be this cranky if we had beaten the Rebels?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

no disgrace, can see those two giving EVERYBODY gyp there for the next 5 bloody years, at this level and - uh oh - the one above

McMahon in particular. He's got the potential to be something special I think.

 

[Gnostic]

I guess that is the downside of playing with width. You need to commit fewer players to the breakdown and the ball moves away from your forwards a bit. I am confident we will learn from the experience and change the structures to mitigate the risk.



Charger- I think for the first few years, Foley coached the Force to win with the resources we had available. I think he can see the writing on the wall that this is not the future and that those stars we do produce will leave because risk aversion doesn't get them into the Wallabies. Personally, I thought that 2014 was a success and I wouldn't have complained about using a similar strategy in 2015, except that it stopped working. I would be more pissed off if Foley delivered up more of the same this year. Sure if this season is a fuck up, its probably time to move him on. I wonder if you would be this cranky if we had beaten the Rebels?

That would be what the Force has done up until this game. I often wonder what is the thought process of commentators & fans who only look at a coaches record at one side. Foley achieved pretty much the same results at the Tahs with a very large number of starting wallabies in the squad. The fact was then and now that a risk averse plan will limit scoring for the opposition and will win a few games, but it doesn't win enough in the long run and alienates Australian fans to boot. Similarly Richard Graham was shite as a Wallabies backs coach but the benefit of the doubt was given as he was under the Great Robbie, but the Force showed his skills and how has that changed at the Reds.

As a contrast, look at Eddie Jones, he significantly changed how the Wallabies played post Macqueen, which needed to happen, perhaps earlier, as the rule interpretation/emphasis changes meant Macqueens endless recycle game effectively amounted to sealing off each ruck with a homogenous player type in the backline. It can be said that Eddie was before his time with regard to pack play and had some things spot on but made a fundamental error by disregarding the set pieces except as a mode of re-start. Anybody who has followed his career since then will see that he has evolved and his teams are often more complete and play very smart Rugby (the Reds aside). So a coach can improve and get better over time, but I just don' see that having happened with Foley or Graham and it is bemusing that some just don't examine the history, not in terms of results of games but in terms of actual play effectiveness over that time.

 

[Forcefield]

I think you misinterpret that statement. I don't mean mitigate risk by playing conservatively. I mean mitigate risk by creating attacking structures where your backrow is better able to secure the breakdown. Keep on playing with width, but do so where you have players positioned to support the ball carrier.

I guess how this season progresses will determine whether Foley can change his spots. I have my doubts about Foley, but I am willing to give him a shot. It may not have reflected on the scoreboard, but I think the current team is in a much better place than when Richard Graham left. I really like that Foley has embraced local talent in a way that Richard Graham never did. I still feel pissed off that Graham never used Jake Ball, who went on to become a Welsh international, and called in Ollie Atkins instead (who is a good player, but not local).

 

[Shaker]

Looking back on the game, i think we probably should have won, we had 27 turnovers and bombed 1-2 tries with bad/silly offloads, most of which ended up with Brache dropping it.

Scrums were good, much better than last year, Lineouts were fantastic. Only lost 1 lineout, Nathan Charles's throwing was much better this game than probably the entire season last year. Rebels tackling and breakdown work won the game for me. Everytime we got into their 22, they isolated the runner and nabbed turnovers.

I think its clear that the boys are running the ball, last season the only post season stat list we topped was kicks in play, yet last night we had 8 less than the Rebels. I think playing Lance at 10 over Grant helps as well, as he's more likely to charge the line than kick it.

Ultimately, its game 1, and we played ok but its a long season, and we march to another 'struggling' team in the Reds next week.

 

[boyo]

I predict it will happen in the Shigginsth minute of the game.

Time's up.

 

[Dave Beat]

Reece Hodge played 10 at U20 level. I thought he was a truckload better than McIntyre in the 2013 JWC.

Yes, and Horwitz often sat behind him as well.

I talked him up at 12 last year based on his performances @ 12 and some of the folk on the Tah's thread said to small, to skinny, not enough experience without seeing many of his games.

Picked at 11, switched top 15 just before kick off, and changed to inside back in the first 20 - all in your debut - fair effort.

He made some uncharactoristic mistakes on Saturday night but so did everyone on both teams - ugly game, and for what it's worth.
I like Rebels balance .
I like Force's new style.
Both teams - earn the right to go wide - how many times did we see 7 + phases.
Didnt rate the ref.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Funny thing about refs. IMO Marius is one of the better refs in world rugby and certainly streets ahead of anyone we produce.

Lees was very pedantic in the Brumbies/Hurricanes match, but he was 'taken out of the game' by the Brumbies (2 YCs notwithstanding). Only time I can recall this old adage actually having some meaning in a game.

Gardiner was inconsistent in the Waratahs/Reds game, and had lost it to the extent at one stage he threatened to send the whole of each front row to the sin bin. He was very quick, premature imo, to find fault with the props in the early scrums, and as someone else posted, he apparently required the front rows to set closer and then penalised one for early engagement. His delay between calling bind and engage seemed to be noticeably longer than other refs. I think he was looking for any excuse to award a free kick or penalty rather than letting the scrum proceed.

 

[wamberal]

Very few, if any, referees have actually played front row. No wonder they don't have a clue, pretty much universally.


The overhead view, and an input from the TMO, should be mandatory.

 

[boyo]

Very few, if any, referees have actually played front row. No wonder they don't have a clue, pretty much universally.


The overhead view, and an input from the TMO, should be mandatory.

Impossible in most matches.

 

[Dave Beat]

Very few, if any, referees have actually played front row. No wonder they don't have a clue, pretty much universally.


The overhead view, and an input from the TMO, should be mandatory.

From the mouth of a RWC final referee - often we have no idea but we need to keep the game flowing.

 

[199madmave]

You must be very pleased to see Luke, Jordy and Reece in the Team of the Week Dave Beat!

 

[Dave Beat]

You must be very pleased to see Luke, Jordy and Reece in the Team of the Week Dave Beat!

MMM


Gee, given the Brumbies performance i would have selected the wild horses, and not touched any other team.
NSW played for 20 minutes.
QLD lost.
Reb's / Force allot of errors, i cant recall seeing the stats but how many times did we hit 7 phases, earn the right to go wide.