G&GR Wallaby of the Season 2009 - BaaBaas game

[Gagger]

Like last year we'll run a best man of the season by aggregating votes over the matches. To save on labour, we'll collect votes through the poll on the front page, so if you haven't already, get over there and vote. I'll feed them on to Ruggamatrix as well.

However, we still want wanging on about it in the forum, so please share who you voted for and why in this thread. Or feel free to question the popular vote going on etc.....

At the moment Gits is ahead in the poll with Stirlo coming second.

Hard to argue with Gits selection, but I thought Burgess had a huge impact on the game as well.

 

[RugbyReg]

Haven't voted officially yet but I'd probably go:

3 Morty
2 Burgo
1 Smith

Do I have overly high expectations of Gits?

 

[cyclopath]

Can we vote for more than 1?
Anyway my 3 are:-
1. Gits - managed the game well, kicked accurately which is a new delight for a Wallaby fan, and scored a cracker of a try.
2. Morty - yeah he missed some tackles, but he made some big plays and reminded everyone else to underrate him at their peril. And he didn't get concussed, which is a bonus
3. Big Kev - I'M EXCITED! To see him back in some decent form is good news. I really think it is crucial that he fires for us, since the Seagull can't scare the crust off a blancmange.

Honourable mention to Burgess (but keep him off the red cordial prior to kick-off) and, gulp, can't believe I'm saying it, Schmoo Mitchell.
Forwards got less because I expected them to be better than the BBs (and were), and I had more expectation of kak back play so was more uplifted by the glimpses of good stuff.

 

[Langthorne]

There are at least four voters who aren't taking this at all seriously - QUADE COOPER?! No matter what you think of him, he wasn't on long enough to get the vote for best player. Surely not even his nearest and dearest could seriously think he was even in the top 15 performers. If we were talking about worst haircut then he might have a chance.

I picked Giteau as my number 1. Every aspect of his play was top drawer, and his game covered all the skills: kicking, passing, running...just brilliant.

If there was a 2nd and 3rd place they'd got to Burgess and Mortlock.

All the backs had a pretty good game (even Ashley-Cooper, though I'm still not convinced - and I'm worried that in the games against the better teams he will be shown up badly).

The forwards did enough, but were not all over the Baa Baas (imagine what might have been if Elsom was playing for them too). When the team was named I was a little disappointed there weren't more Waratah forwards in there - of the Aussie teams, they were the form pack in the S14. I think Mowen is very unlucky to not be in the squad (especially as Hodgson was in the starting line up). Whatever the case, the forwards will need to do a lot more against the better sides.

I couldn't finish without mentioning George Smith (funnily enough, I watched Smith and Waugh quite closely):

Smith put on two great short passes which led to tries. Although the first one was forward, I won't be complaining if we get away with it against the All Blacks. Those two passes were spot on, and after the first one I was trying to reconcile those stats from the S14 that recorded his passing as less accurate than Waughs - and I think I've worked it out. Smith's short passes are very accurate, but the long passes are (were) not quite so crisp. Waugh almost never attempts long passes. So if we just compared short passing Smith would be ahead (I expect).

There wasn't really anything in the match to alter my overall opinion of both players. Both great, but playing quite different styles. To put it simply, Waugh is more of a scavenger and is in a lot of rucks and mauls. Smith does get involved in scavenging and R & Ms, but not to the same extent - he does a lot more running, passing and (to my immense frustration) kicking (if you've got a single digit on your back and you aren't called Burgess - Please, Please, Please, Please, Please - Do Not Kick the Ball! - and don't do swan dives for tries, or any stupid finger pointing or any generally unbecoming behaviour before, during or after scoring a try).

 

[Biffo]

I can't fnd the poll. Can someone please enter for me:

1. Horwill
2. Moore
3. Giteau

 

[Langthorne]

The poll is on the front page - click on "Blog" at the top right of the page.

Horwill, really? I love his attitude, and he is on his way back, and even got himself punched IIRC - which he seems to love.

 

[Cutter]

I couldn't finish without mentioning George Smith (funnily enough, I watched Smith and Waugh quite closely):

Smith put on two great short passes which led to tries. Although the first one was forward, I won't be complaining if we get away with it against the All Blacks. Those two passes were spot on, and after the first one I was trying to reconcile those stats from the S14 that recorded his passing as less accurate than Waughs - and I think I've worked it out. Smith's short passes are very accurate, but the long passes are (were) not quite so crisp. Waugh almost never attempts long passes. So if we just compared short passing Smith would be ahead (I expect).

There wasn't really anything in the match to alter my overall opinion of both players. Both great, but playing quite different styles. To put it simply, Waugh is more of a scavenger and is in a lot of rucks and mauls. Smith does get involved in scavenging and R & Ms, but not to the same extent - he does a lot more running, passing and (to my immense frustration) kicking (if you've got a single digit on your back and you aren't called Burgess - Please, Please, Please, Please, Please - Do Not Kick the Ball! - and don't do swan dives for tries, or any stupid finger pointing or any generally unbecoming behaviour before, during or after scoring a try).

Waugh is a very tight 7. If the game is played in his channels (5 metres either side of the ruck) he is good. If it is a wider game, he is too cumbersome and slow. Lee's view is that Waugh suits a game against the Boks and it does except when they play it wide.

I think Waugh is done. He didnt do enough in the S14 or in that game to suggest to me that he is equal to Pocock. He is a specialist 7 and so doesnt suit a bench role (unlike, for example, Brown). Unless there is an injury, I cant see him being retained in the squad for the full season. With Elsom back and Palu to come back, keeping Waugh as well would give a disproportionate back row representation in the squad. I was surprised he was picked to start with. Deans also knows that, if there was an injury, Waugh is good enough, experienced enough and smart enough that it wouldnt take him long to settle back in. I expect to see him getting plenty of game time for Syndey Uni.

 

[formeropenside]

Apart from the tackle on SBW I thoughy Burgess was poo. Too slow to clear the ball - quickly out of the ruck, yes, but then running across field for 5m all too often.

 

[disco]

3points- Matt Giteau
2points- James Horwill
1Point- Stirling Mortlock

 

[fatprop]

3 Gits
2 Burgess
1 Mitchell

The forwards were rubbish

 

[fatprop]

Apart from the tackle on SBW I thoughy Burgess was poo. Too slow to clear the ball - quickly out of the ruck, yes, but then running across field for 5m all too often.

Burgess's speed to the ruck wasn't being matched by Aus's attack giving him options to pass to.

A lot of the time Aus's structure was all over the place, we really missed having some decent forwards prepared to truck it up.

 

[naza]

I think Waugh is done.

I'm relieved the 'Waugh is done' club has another member. I sense the Palu fan club is also gaining members.

3 Burgess
2 Giteau
1 Mitchell

Giteau was dangerous but still too impatient and is in love with the cross field kick. Don't want to rehash the topic but I'm not convinced Barnes & Giteau are playing the right positions. Barnes has no running game and with him at 12 we've no pace at centre. What ends up happening is Giteau runs laterally or Barnes kicks away prime pill. Dumb.

I watched Dean Mumm closely. I reckon the forwards have been absolutely flogged throughout the week, which would explain their lethargic performance.

 

[Reddy!]

I think Waugh is done.

I'm relieved the 'Waugh is done' club has another member. I sense the Palu fan club is also gaining members.

3 Burgess
2 Giteau
1 Mitchell

Giteau was dangerous but still too impatient and is in love with the cross field kick. Don't want to rehash the topic but I'm not convinced Barnes & Giteau are playing the right positions. Barnes has no running game and with him at 12 we've no pace at centre. What ends up happening is Giteau runs laterally or Barnes kicks away prime pill. Dumb.

I watched Dean Mumm closely. I reckon the forwards have been absolutely flogged throughout the week, which would explain their lethargic performance.

Barnes does have a running game, you obviously didn't watch him much in the Super 14 this year.

 

[barbarian]

Barnes does have a running game, you obviously didn't watch him much in the Super 14 this year.

Naza doesn't let what happens on the field affect his opinions of players- just ask Rocky Elsom. :fishing

My 3-

3pts- Giteau
2pts- Mortlock
1pt- Horwill

 

[Pfitzy]

For people who can't see the bit where you vote, some instructions:

1) Click on "Blog" at the top of this page, or simply go to http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/

2) Look in the right-hand column. See the bit at the top called "Recent Comments"? Look a bit lower

3) See the bit labelled "Subscribe"? Go lower... its OK, you're nearly there.

4) Now you are probably looking at something called "Democracy In Action" which has a subtitle of Your Wallaby pick of the BaaBaas game

Note that getting someone else to vote might not work because you can only vote once (you have to do other difficult things to make that work).

If that hasn't yet helped, see the attachment below - making sure you go to Step 1 (above) first.

 

[Biffo]

Thanks for that advice. I didn't need it, as I had solved my own problem. I had only half the page on my screen and didn't scroll right or left. :huxley

 

[Moses]

3 Horwill
2 Gits
1 Turner

 

[Epi]

There wasn't really anything in the match to alter my overall opinion of both players. Both great, but playing quite different styles. To put it simply, Waugh is more of a scavenger and is in a lot of rucks and mauls. Smith does get involved in scavenging and R & Ms, but not to the same extent - he does a lot more running, passing and (to my immense frustration) kicking (if you've got a single digit on your back and you aren't called Burgess - Please, Please, Please, Please, Please - Do Not Kick the Ball! - and don't do swan dives for tries, or any stupid finger pointing or any generally unbecoming behaviour before, during or after scoring a try).

No, include Burgess in that... he shouldn't be kicking either.

 

[Scotty]

Anyway my 3 are:-
1. Gits - managed the game well, kicked accurately which is a new delight for a Wallaby fan, and scored a cracker of a try.
2. Morty - yeah he missed some tackles, but he made some big plays and reminded everyone else to underrate him at their peril. And he didn't get concussed, which is a bonus
3. Big Kev - I'M EXCITED! To see him back in some decent form is good news. I really think it is crucial that he fires for us, since the Seagull can't scare the crust off a blancmange

.

It seems that the goal posts are different for Mortlock than the remainder of the players. Just because he played better than his poor S14 form doesn't mean he was the 2nd best forward on that field. He was average in defence, lacking pace in attack and never there in support.

And Noddy, I think you are marking way too harshly on Gits - I find it very difficult to believe that you don't consider his performance better than Mortlocks.

It is a real shame that Ioane is injured, as I think we would have seen him at 13 in the next week or so, and been able to compare him to Mortlock and some views could be better grounded.

 

[cyclopath]

I'll respond since you quoted my post.
You can look at it otherwise, Scotty. Morty may have made some mistakes, but I think he made some telling plays too in attack and defence.
I agree Ioane would and should have been getting game time, and we could all have a different debate. But he isn't.
Mortlock as skipper is 13 for the time being, and for me to see him play a step or two above his latter season S14 form is enough.
I think my ratings were grounded - maybe a bit flippant in the writing, but thought out nonetheless.
But that's the beauty of this place, we can all debate these things usually in good humour. ;D