Spook said:
Henderson (whom I don't rate at all) had it all over Palmer in the first half when Henderson was at loose head - Palmer was collapsing all the time.
Uh, no actually. Palmer was packing far lower than Henderson the whole night long and the ACT man was hitting with his shoulders below his hips on the engagement as a result. because he doesn't have the technique or balance to get down that low. The ref was utterly clueless in this area (unsurprisingly) and, on the ACT feed, gave the ACT fans looking on some hope that it was the visitors' fault as he decided in favour of the feeding team. Happens all the time.
Fast forward to last night where EXACTLY the same thing happened to Palmer. Crockett couldn't get down to Palmer's level in the scrum after Baxter went off. For the first couple of Crusader feeds Pollock pinged the NSW for collapsing. Then when he changed sides he saw the difference in height (Palmer is about 10cm shorter than Crockett too) and realised where the problem actually was. In fact, with Robinson on the other side and TPN in the middle, that whole NSW front row can pack much lower than many of their opponents and use it to their advantage. Benn Robinson has been doing it ever since he started playing S14.
Spook said:
I remember in the first round you criticised the ACT scrum for being crap against the Blues - you even went as far to say that the ACT should have done better against Afoa..but the ACT haven't played the Blues yet :nta:. Thus you have lost all objectivity on this issue.
Right. Of course. Naturally, if you'd followed that thread through to its conclusion you'd have seen I retracted that statement because I realised my mistake. But the result is the same: big lump of a Kiwi prop that is talked up over there but can't actually scrummage.
So the lack of objectivity is probably more on your part. Given recent history, anyway.
In any case, its part of my sentence that I do community service so let me give you a rundown of the scrums:
04:45 - NSW Scrum packs just outside the ACT 22 after ACT 10 knocks on. After both sides decide to fuck around lining up on the mark, Palmer's shoulders are right in line with his hips while Henderson's back is angled up slightly. On the engage, Palmer drives Henderson back over his own heels before Henderson's arse bucks out sideways. NSW scrum advances a metre and the ball comes out.
06:33 - not about the scrum but interesting as I missed this the first time around - Beale had his foot ON the 22 when he kicked the ball, with his heel inside the 22. But he got done for kicking it out on the full...
11:00 - ACT Scrum just inside their 22 as Tahu knocks on. Free kick ACT as NSW get done for pushing over the mark. Cameras completely miss the engagement because the OB director is clearly a fuckhead and wants Tahu's face on-screen. All you get to see is Henderson hitting the deck as the ACT fold backwards, in a similar position to Scrum #1
13:20 - NSW scrum about 35m from their own line after ACT close the gap (?) at lineout. Lawrence stops the first set to tell Ma'afu to line up straighter. First attempt, Palmer completely beats Henderson to the engagement, but the ref gives him benefit of the doubt. Again the difference between engagement heights is obvious. Reset. After Moore and Ma'afu bitch to Lawrence, he short-arms them for delaying tactics. First signs that the ACT scrum knows its in trouble.
15:20 - ACT Scrum as the NSW knock on at a lineout just in the ACT half. Collapse. Reset. TPN crouches but after binding wants to move again for some reason. Henderson gets a good hit on this time and pushes up, but Palmer absorbs it. The problem is Robsinson has beaten Ma'afu to the hit on the other side and it goes down over there, pushing the whole thing towards the Brumbies' left. Henderson tries to steady but getting his outside hand on the ground (valid tactic in my book, as long as its temporary) but it still hits the deck and the NSW are done for collapsing. Free kick ACT.
16:47 - NSW scrum just inside the NSW half. Palmer once again well below Hendo on engage. Ma'afu stuffs this one completely and there is a reset. On the hit, the ACT are driven back about half a metre before they decide to try and step left to wheel, which forces a collapse as the NSW keep going straight. But the ball comes out of this one on the NSW side.
19:07 - NSW scrum as the ACT hold it at ruck time. Camera angle too long to see the hit, but Henderson tries to step around the corner and gets full arm penalised for it.
22:57 - NSW scrum around the ACT 40 for a knock-on. Palmer hits Henderson, drives him back. Just before the ball comes out they both hit the ground. The difference in height on the crouch is just as apparent as it was on the first scrum.
24:00 - Beale kicks it dead - ACT scrum just inside their own half. ACT hit well as Hendo finally gets low enough to engage Palmer properly. Ball comes through, both front rows hit the deck but the ref lets it go. That was parity for Henderson for the first time.
26:06 - NSW knock on at lineout. ACT scrum inside their own 22. Good hit again by Henderson and after a brief struggle both of them collapse inwards slightly. Ball comes out.
27:13 - NSW knock on. ACT scrum - Henderson briefly gets parity but Ma'afu has beaten Robinson on the hit for once. Robsinon steadies but its too late - scrum collapses.
30:26 - NSW knock on. ACT scrum on the NSW 30 collapses straight away and Lawrence penalises (full arm) Palmer. There is no clear footage (see previous comments about OB director being a fuckhead) so I'll go with Lawrence this time, given Hendo's improvement in the last 5 minutes.
No more scrums in the first half - just Beale missing kicks at goal and then getting one. Total of 11 scrums by my count, 3 of which Henderson was competitive in, one of those he got the penalty for Palmer collapsing.
Kind of blows your theory at the top of the thread out of the water, but I'll put that down to you not having reviewed each scrum about 6 times like I just did. Its easy to base your opinions on what the ref is doing or what the commentators say (or in this case, didn't say)
I can go on with the second half if you like - but they're on the other side of the scrum so its a bit hard to get precise details
