Hore's brain-fart

[Scoey]

As were Higginbotham's recent knee and headbutt on Richie, QC (Quade Cooper)'s knee on Richie and his celebratory shove in the head in Hong Kong.

Have any Kiwis actually said that Hore's act was OK? I don't think so...it's almost like some people want AB fans to write letters of apology for our team or disown them or something.

I'm with you Bullrush - well I was until you brought up "the push" from QC (Quade Cooper) on McCaw. It was stupid, unnecessary, childish etc but to mention it in the same thread as this sort of stuff takes away from your point.

I think the drama for most is that it was Hore that did it and that shocks a lot of people because clearly, he's not "that sort of player". The action has been condemned from just about all corners of Rugby and justifiably so. It's that 'shock' value that make people react emotionally (ie calling for assault charges etc) and fail to think rationally.

Not wanting to piss of the Saffa's here but when I think of thugs, I think of Bakkies Botha. Not saying he would do something like this but had it been a player like him that had done it, it would be less of a shock and people would probably be less outraged. He would get his 8-12 match/week/whatever suspension and we would all get on with our lives.

That's what I think anyway.

PS. On the letters of apology thing. I think probably the worst part of this mess was Hansen's reaction post game. He had plenty of time to think about it, he would've seen the incident a number of times, yet denied any wrong doing or remorse for the actions of one of his players. Not a good look.

 

[Scoey]

Bullrush, I can't think of any other workplace where the police, lawyers and judges wouldn't be involved.

The guy was king hit from behind, hospitalised. is still feeling the effects and is unable to play this week-end.

I know what you're saying but I don't like where you're going. Where do you draw the line? They are saying they want him on assault charges. By definition, almost every aspect of what happens on a Rugby pitch amounts to assault. Which is precisely why, what happens on a Rugby pitch, stays on the Rugby pitch. I know it don't seem right in occasions like this but that's the way it is. How is this type of 'assault' any different to a punch up, in terms of the actual 'assault'?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

On one level I get what you're saying, and the footage showing the shepherd is very clear, but I have real difficultly accepting the injury was an 'unintended consequence' when Hore swung at the guy's head. If you attack the head then you have to know and accept the potential consequences.

Hore would have been better perhaps to shove him in the back to clear him out of the way. There were better ways for Hore to send a message.

I agree entirely that there were better ways to send that message, and that the swing was aimed at the guys head.

He absolutely deserves to have the book thrown at him.

I think the term that is bandied about in international politics is proportionate response. Like Israel bombing the Gazans into the stone age for a series of rocket attacks across the border, what Gimli did was not proportionate to the "offence" of shepherding.

Whether he intended to hospitalise the player or not (and IMHO he didn't), he did and he now must accept the consequences of his actions, no matter how unpalletable they may be.

 

[Ignoto]

Which is precisely why, what happens on a Rugby pitch, stays on the Rugby pitch. I know it don't seem right in occasions like this but that's the way it is.

By playing a contact sport, you accept that there will be consequences like being tackled hard or hurt in unintentional ways. There has been cases from memory where a player has successfully won a claim for assault for damage that occurred outside the accepted level of "assault". I would dare say that hitting someone with a swinging arm, high like Hore did is possibly outside of the accepted realm of injury.

 

[gel]

I don't think Hore had any intention to injure the guy, his goal was to get him out of the way.

I am sorry, we will just have to disagree on that one - I just can't see how the swinging arm aimed at the head from behind is anything other than intended to injure.

 

[fatprop]

I am sorry, we will just have to disagree on that one - I just can't see how the swinging arm aimed at the head from behind is anything other than intended to injure.

Cool we get to agree to disagree.

 

[Torn Hammy]

I know what you're saying but I don't like where you're going. Where do you draw the line? They are saying they want him on assault charges. By definition, almost every aspect of what happens on a Rugby pitch amounts to assault. Which is precisely why, what happens on a Rugby pitch, stays on the Rugby pitch. I know it don't seem right in occasions like this but that's the way it is. How is this type of 'assault' any different to a punch up, in terms of the actual 'assault'?

The line he crossed, for me, was that it was such a big hit from behind. Can't remember when someone else ever did that and hope it doesn't happen again.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Didn't it happen in Mungo a few years back, someone for the Newcastle Knights (Clint Newton 2004 ?) IIRC?

And Cross Country Volley Ball has a similar Barry Hall king hit from behind incident.

Perhaps it should be Gimli who should be going to boxing rather than our own QC (Quade Cooper)!

 

[Braveheart81]

Barry Hall hit Brent Staker from the front.

It is still about the worst king hit I've seen.

 

[BPC]

Whether he intended to hospitalise the player or not (and IMHO he didn't), he did and he now must accept the consequences of his actions, no matter how unpalletable they may be.

I agree that it may not have been the outcome that Hore desired, but the moment he swung at the head he intended the outcome. The footage doesn't suggest that he was swinging at the shoulder or somewhere else or mistimed a push, it was a deliberate attack on the head.

To borrow a legal phrase (rather than using high-falutin' international diplomacy), it was a "reasonably foreseeable" consequence.

 

[Ash]

The Danny Willliams (Storm) king hit on Mark O'Neill (Tigers) would have to be close to the worst I have seen. Williams blind sided O'Neill behind play, not only that, but Williams ran O'Neill down from behind to hit him. Williams' defence was that he was concussed. Led to one of the longest bans in NRL history. Can't find a video of it, though.

 

[hawktrain]

Your friend appears to be Richard Loe.

Both acts were despicable and unnecessary.

He actually does have some Richard Loe qualities to him, he is a prop, but I'm not sure if he's ever eye gouged anyone. He wasn't saying that it was ok, he was just giving a bit more thought to it. We both agreed that Hore really should've gotten a longer suspension, and that the judiciary process is becoming ridiculous.

I agree with your last line, and I think Hore and Greyling deserved the same amount of weeks. But they need to sort the judiciary out, 2 weeks for Greyling was pathetic, and I whatever Hore gets will be considered by lots of people, especially the UK journos calling for an assault charge, to be too short and/or it will be incredibly inconsistent with other incidents. If Hore was to get 8 weeks, but Greyling only 2, then that really shows the poor state of the judiciary. Look at the NRL, it does a lot of things badly but one thing it does well is punish things like these. I remember Danny Williams giving Mark O'Neill a legit king hit, just punching him in the back of the head whilst he tried to get back into the defensive line, and he got 18 weeks.

 

[Braveheart81]

Danny Williams had also been suspended five times in three seasons leading up to the king hit on Mark O'Neill.

That is the longest suspension in NRL history.

 

[wamberal]

The king hit is cowardly. It is also very dangerous, because the victim has no time for evasion.

I disagree that "what happens on the pitch stays on the pitch", clearly it doesn't, because players get suspended for what happens on the pitch.

In rare cases I would definitely like to see players charged, if there are reasonable grounds for conviction, on charges like GBH. The Hore incident must be in the ballpark for police action, IMHO.

My opinion is probably biased to some extent from my introduction to senior rugby, back in the days before TMOs etc, in fact, before even the touchies had any power to intervene.

 

[Braveheart81]

What happens on the pitch stays on the pitch is relevant when people play tough but fair and then can go and have a beer after the game and be mates.

If someone acts like a criminal on the pitch then it sure as hell isn't just going to stay on the pitch.

 

[Scoey]

I can definitely see both sides to the argument. Where my concern stems form is with the increasingly litigious society we live in, criminal charges for things like this stand a real chance of putting an end to contact sports in the long term. Because where do we draw the line?

 

[Dan54]

Scoey, I a bit amused to see you say Hansen, I obviously didn't see what you saw on TV, but I definitely saw Hansen say he had seen incident and was waiting to hear from player etc, also indicated what he had seen would result in a ban. I actually remarked to people I was with,that was pretty close to saying he thought he a goner(and from his tone he was shitty at him), but he can't really say much until after judiciary surely. Mind you I was in NZ and they played whole post match remarks, not just a few. You sure you didn't mix him up with Deans who was 'looking at screen' and missed Higgers incident?

 

[Scoey]

Dan54 we quite possibly saw different footage. I only saw a short clip and it may well have been shortened by whoever to create outrage or disgust towards Hansen and the AB's. I was surprised to say the least. What you described is pretty much what I expect a coach in his position would say.
I'll try and find the footage but I won't make any promises!

 

[boyo]

The king hit is cowardly. It is also very dangerous, because the victim has no time for evasion.

This.

 

[en_force_er]

As much of a dickhead as Hore was it's a shame his career is tarnished when a player like Etzebeth is fast making a career out of it and hardly gets a mention.

Does nobody else notice the wilful thuggery this guy get's away with? He's BBotha but worse. Before you disagree with me cast an eye over him in a game. He's no good.

Hopefully he changes his ways soon, because he's got a great skill set and intimidating stature.