Hybrid Game - Auggies v Keebra Park
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WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
Score anyone.
M
Maroon Army
Guest
Didn't catch the score but Auggies won.
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
Good
WorkingClassRugger
David Codey (61)
It would appear the Auggies boys were able to handle the Keebra Boys. Interesting indeed. Close game by the looks of it.
tigerland12
John Thornett (49)
hahahah well played sir
I like to watch
David Codey (61)
Whoops.
Went down there to have a look as did a stack of others. It was a really good atmosphere.both sides played really well, in retrospect I think both sides would say they could have done things a lot better/differently.
The scoreboard was a pretty good indication of the game I thought, with Augs scoring 3 tries to 2.
What was the point of the game? i have no idea.
I did enjoy the game immensely, reminds me of a thousand years ago when they used to play the Amco shield & Cup on a Wednesday night.Nothing better than a mid week game of footy, no matter what type..
S
Scoz
Guest
You know I completely disagree about the rules favouring the Union team having watched tonight. It was really hard for the Aug's team to work the ball out of their half and then have ANY time left (60 sec shot clock) to score using Union plays. The timer both levelled the playing field and kept the action flowing. From Keebra Park's position, they easily broke tackles and made breaks from within their half but determined defence across field by Aug's meant they switched to Union's unstructured (by their standards) plays and they just couldnt match the rucks, keep up with their team mates or not panick to keep the ball alive. Best comment I have seen is that Keebra think that Union is like 7 a side and you just throw it around and dont commit to anything.
If anything the winner was who kept the ball longer and St Aug's didnt make as many mistakes or incur as many penalties. Not to mention there were about 8-9 St Augs players who also play Rugby League, some Harold Mathews and SG Ball players.
It was a thoroughly entertaining match with exciting vaiations on both codes and with almost zero kicking it would have been EXHAUSTING! I am not sure it is something that would ever take over either code but for an entertaining spectacle a la World Sevens it is worth a try. I for one would watch it as if I have to pay hundreds if not thousands to see Waratahs and Wallabies kick the ball to hell....... this is far more running rugby than you would see in two Rep rugby matches.
If anything the winner was who kept the ball longer and St Aug's didnt make as many mistakes or incur as many penalties. Not to mention there were about 8-9 St Augs players who also play Rugby League, some Harold Mathews and SG Ball players.
It was a thoroughly entertaining match with exciting vaiations on both codes and with almost zero kicking it would have been EXHAUSTING! I am not sure it is something that would ever take over either code but for an entertaining spectacle a la World Sevens it is worth a try. I for one would watch it as if I have to pay hundreds if not thousands to see Waratahs and Wallabies kick the ball to hell....... this is far more running rugby than you would see in two Rep rugby matches.
S
Scoz
Guest
I was there and it was really entertaining footy. Despite what all the Leaguies say (they really do have a chip on both shoulders abour rugby union), both teams showed why they are good are their code and the difference was really who could be competent at the other team's code. In this example, St Augustines were more competent at League than Keebra were at Union and St Aug's had the vast majority of the ball.
Keebra were bigger, stronger and much faster. But they are almost a professional league school so you would expect that. Aug's were great at ball retention and they scampered around in defence well. Keebra cut St Augs up in their half and Aug's grew a leg when they were playing union.
Best parts of the Hybrid concept:
1. 60 second score rule. It was hard for BOTH teams to keep the game fast enough to score and as the match wore on the physical fitness component wore them both down equally.
2. No kicking. There was VERY limited kicking from both sides.
3. Two refs - easily the hardest part of the game for each was the changeover at the 50m line. Not sure what the communicaation was like from the refs but both teams seemed pretty good at the adaption as they ran over the halfway.
Keebra were bigger, stronger and much faster. But they are almost a professional league school so you would expect that. Aug's were great at ball retention and they scampered around in defence well. Keebra cut St Augs up in their half and Aug's grew a leg when they were playing union.
Best parts of the Hybrid concept:
1. 60 second score rule. It was hard for BOTH teams to keep the game fast enough to score and as the match wore on the physical fitness component wore them both down equally.
2. No kicking. There was VERY limited kicking from both sides.
3. Two refs - easily the hardest part of the game for each was the changeover at the 50m line. Not sure what the communicaation was like from the refs but both teams seemed pretty good at the adaption as they ran over the halfway.
[Note: K = Keebra - A = St. Augustines]
Good comments Scoz but I didn't think the K lads were bigger.
Was at the game too and really enjoyed it, but it took me a while to get an instinct of what rules were being used. No doubt folks know what the rules were from watching the live feed, or looking at them earlier in the thread, or at the game you could read them in the programme, but sometimes you were looking for a ruck and it was a play the ball instead because you had forgotten.
Some thoughts, in no particular order:
• Although one knew that both sets of boys, or a goodly portion of them, had played the other code, or at least had an understanding of it, it was still surprising how adept both sides were playing the "other" game.
• It seemed that the league rules were instinctively easier to understand to the rugby lads than the convoluted rugby laws were to the league boys.
• Was surprised how good the K boys were at the lineout. Once A opted for a 5M attacking lineout but K took the pill cleanly and a promising scoring chance was lost.
• No penalty kicks at goal were taken.
• I thought the score would be higher with only 13 defenders and wider spaces, and because of turnovers caused by unfamiliarity with the other code, but the defence on both sides was staunch. Was a bit surprised at both sides losing the pill to the other side when playing "their" code.
• A lost 2 of their own scrums by my count because of early engages. More than once the A scrum was untidy and they lost the ball, but a couple of times K got pinged for wheeling in an illegal manner.
• The biggest disadvantage for K was the concept of competition for the ball at the breakdown because in league the contest stops at the tackle. Defending the pick and go was another, and A should have tried more of it - but it was just the same breakdown problem really, since pick and go is one breakdown after the other. This was the case when I saw the St. Gregory's boarders (league players) playing union against the Joeys Twos a couple of times.
• It would have been better for the K lads to play their code when they were in their attacking half. Because of the breakdown they lost a bit of pill in promising positions. By contrast the A lads found that when they had the ball in their own half they didn't have to worry as much as in playing union because there was no contest for their ball. Then in the K half they knew how to protect their attacking ball better.
• You had to conclude that the league lads were disadvantaged more in having to play half the game with union laws, than the union guys were in playing half the game with league rules. I thought A would be disadvantaged because their union team would have some big props and locks who could have had trouble defending the wider gaps you get with 13 players a side, but the A guys were quite agile. In fact: one of their problems this year is going to be a smallish front row.
• The game was played in a good spirit and it was good to see the lads applaud each other in the union way after the game with a tunnel, though for all I know, they could do that in league too. The only incident I can remember was when a K lad was pinged when he raised his elbow against a tackler.
• Nearly got a sore neck turning around looking at the shot clock all the time. It was an interesting novelty. The boys dealt with it well but once JJ got over the 50 metre line, which would have restarted the 60 seconds shot clock, but instead of playing on he kicked the ball out on the bounce, thinking his side would lose the ball on the next tackle.
• The biggest mystery to an NRL employee sitting next to me was the union advantage law.
• Had a good yarn with Nick Mulvenney of Reuters at the match. I was interested in what the thought about the game; he enjoyed it but he was more interested in my thoughts, shabby though they were. Most of the folks around me, including the NRL guy, enjoyed it, and so did some Augies parents who are acquaintances of mine. I saw Bob Dwyer, Phil Blake and Tim Sheens (K is a Tigers feeder team) at the ground. Augies is only a drop kick away from Brookie and half the school seemed to be there; so their lads got the biggest cheers.
• From Augies (using union positions):
- 4. Rhys Dombkins from Oz A Schools last year showed he is still in good form and will be pushing to be in the Oz Ones, though possibly as an 8.
- 11. Conor Firth is still as fast and elusive as he was last year.
- 12. JJ Purcell, the Augies Don Quixote and Lloyd Walker, was the player of the match, at least in the first half, and had the NRL guy oohing and aahing. I told him that JJ was loving the league portion of the game because he could isolate himself and didn't have to worry about losing the ball. This did not compute with my new league friend because it was natural to him that a player should be able to keep the ball unless it was the 6th tackle, and unnatural to have it contested.
- 9. Natoli had a cracking match. Watch this space on young Fabian.
- Utlity back Hopoate continued his good form from last year's U/16 tournament, but the chances of his staying in the union code are not great.
• There were quite a few K lads who look like they could have a future in the league game, but they looked very much the same type of player apart from big bopper Rawiri Ahuriri, who was hard to stop every time.
• Though freezing, it was a nice night - and not least because the Manly rugby league fans weren't at the ground. It was a nice change.
Good comments Scoz but I didn't think the K lads were bigger.
Was at the game too and really enjoyed it, but it took me a while to get an instinct of what rules were being used. No doubt folks know what the rules were from watching the live feed, or looking at them earlier in the thread, or at the game you could read them in the programme, but sometimes you were looking for a ruck and it was a play the ball instead because you had forgotten.
Some thoughts, in no particular order:
• Although one knew that both sets of boys, or a goodly portion of them, had played the other code, or at least had an understanding of it, it was still surprising how adept both sides were playing the "other" game.
• It seemed that the league rules were instinctively easier to understand to the rugby lads than the convoluted rugby laws were to the league boys.
• Was surprised how good the K boys were at the lineout. Once A opted for a 5M attacking lineout but K took the pill cleanly and a promising scoring chance was lost.
• No penalty kicks at goal were taken.
• I thought the score would be higher with only 13 defenders and wider spaces, and because of turnovers caused by unfamiliarity with the other code, but the defence on both sides was staunch. Was a bit surprised at both sides losing the pill to the other side when playing "their" code.
• A lost 2 of their own scrums by my count because of early engages. More than once the A scrum was untidy and they lost the ball, but a couple of times K got pinged for wheeling in an illegal manner.
• The biggest disadvantage for K was the concept of competition for the ball at the breakdown because in league the contest stops at the tackle. Defending the pick and go was another, and A should have tried more of it - but it was just the same breakdown problem really, since pick and go is one breakdown after the other. This was the case when I saw the St. Gregory's boarders (league players) playing union against the Joeys Twos a couple of times.
• It would have been better for the K lads to play their code when they were in their attacking half. Because of the breakdown they lost a bit of pill in promising positions. By contrast the A lads found that when they had the ball in their own half they didn't have to worry as much as in playing union because there was no contest for their ball. Then in the K half they knew how to protect their attacking ball better.
• You had to conclude that the league lads were disadvantaged more in having to play half the game with union laws, than the union guys were in playing half the game with league rules. I thought A would be disadvantaged because their union team would have some big props and locks who could have had trouble defending the wider gaps you get with 13 players a side, but the A guys were quite agile. In fact: one of their problems this year is going to be a smallish front row.
• The game was played in a good spirit and it was good to see the lads applaud each other in the union way after the game with a tunnel, though for all I know, they could do that in league too. The only incident I can remember was when a K lad was pinged when he raised his elbow against a tackler.
• Nearly got a sore neck turning around looking at the shot clock all the time. It was an interesting novelty. The boys dealt with it well but once JJ got over the 50 metre line, which would have restarted the 60 seconds shot clock, but instead of playing on he kicked the ball out on the bounce, thinking his side would lose the ball on the next tackle.
• The biggest mystery to an NRL employee sitting next to me was the union advantage law.
• Had a good yarn with Nick Mulvenney of Reuters at the match. I was interested in what the thought about the game; he enjoyed it but he was more interested in my thoughts, shabby though they were. Most of the folks around me, including the NRL guy, enjoyed it, and so did some Augies parents who are acquaintances of mine. I saw Bob Dwyer, Phil Blake and Tim Sheens (K is a Tigers feeder team) at the ground. Augies is only a drop kick away from Brookie and half the school seemed to be there; so their lads got the biggest cheers.
• From Augies (using union positions):
- 4. Rhys Dombkins from Oz A Schools last year showed he is still in good form and will be pushing to be in the Oz Ones, though possibly as an 8.
- 11. Conor Firth is still as fast and elusive as he was last year.
- 12. JJ Purcell, the Augies Don Quixote and Lloyd Walker, was the player of the match, at least in the first half, and had the NRL guy oohing and aahing. I told him that JJ was loving the league portion of the game because he could isolate himself and didn't have to worry about losing the ball. This did not compute with my new league friend because it was natural to him that a player should be able to keep the ball unless it was the 6th tackle, and unnatural to have it contested.
- 9. Natoli had a cracking match. Watch this space on young Fabian.
- Utlity back Hopoate continued his good form from last year's U/16 tournament, but the chances of his staying in the union code are not great.
• There were quite a few K lads who look like they could have a future in the league game, but they looked very much the same type of player apart from big bopper Rawiri Ahuriri, who was hard to stop every time.
• Though freezing, it was a nice night - and not least because the Manly rugby league fans weren't at the ground. It was a nice change.
darkhorse
Darby Loudon (17)
I'm still undecided on the concept.
First of all tho, I would have every turn resulting in a revert to league rules. The attacking team would get then 4 (or whatever number you settle on) tackles before union rules would take over. This would still allow a team to counter and run the ball out of their half without fear of losing the ball in a dangerous position, thereby reducing excessive kicking, especially clearance kicks.
Secondly, I would like to see league adopt lineouts. I don't think the lose anything from their game by doing so, rather they would another dimension.
Thirdly, I don't agree with a shot clock. Give the concept a go without it initially. I'm not entirely certain what the benefit is, other than to ensure some attacking remains or to prevent teams holding possession indefinitely, which is the reason league brought in the sixth tackle rule initially. However, the ruck contest would eliminate the problem of unlimited possession, so why bother?
One basketball rule that IMO has potential of being adopted is the foul count. The rugby appropriation would entail a penalty goal being worth 2 points until a certain amount of fouls have been committed when a penalty goal's worth would increase to 3 (or more). Since the ELV's have gone I have cooled on this idea, but it still has a little merit.
On a side note: my ideal situation is to reduce penalties to 2 points. Admittedly, this would result in an increase in professional fouls to kill attacking situations in the 'red zone' or the 22. Or anywhere actually. To counteract this I believe yellow cards should be used more frequently. The increased threat of being sin-binned would reduce fouls and even if they do occur, they're would be 'real' consequences. A yellow card has the obvious consequence of creating space and tiring the opposition, whilst also encouraging the attacking team to go for a try.
Alternatively, giving players 2 yellows, similar to football, before they're sinbinned for however long, would remove some of the stigma refs have in carding players. The big stickler for me is refs being unwilling to go to their pocket. A red card does ruin games but a yellow can make them more exciting.
Anyone sorry for rambling of an a tanget. I probably should have created a new thread for most of that.
First of all tho, I would have every turn resulting in a revert to league rules. The attacking team would get then 4 (or whatever number you settle on) tackles before union rules would take over. This would still allow a team to counter and run the ball out of their half without fear of losing the ball in a dangerous position, thereby reducing excessive kicking, especially clearance kicks.
Secondly, I would like to see league adopt lineouts. I don't think the lose anything from their game by doing so, rather they would another dimension.
Thirdly, I don't agree with a shot clock. Give the concept a go without it initially. I'm not entirely certain what the benefit is, other than to ensure some attacking remains or to prevent teams holding possession indefinitely, which is the reason league brought in the sixth tackle rule initially. However, the ruck contest would eliminate the problem of unlimited possession, so why bother?
One basketball rule that IMO has potential of being adopted is the foul count. The rugby appropriation would entail a penalty goal being worth 2 points until a certain amount of fouls have been committed when a penalty goal's worth would increase to 3 (or more). Since the ELV's have gone I have cooled on this idea, but it still has a little merit.
On a side note: my ideal situation is to reduce penalties to 2 points. Admittedly, this would result in an increase in professional fouls to kill attacking situations in the 'red zone' or the 22. Or anywhere actually. To counteract this I believe yellow cards should be used more frequently. The increased threat of being sin-binned would reduce fouls and even if they do occur, they're would be 'real' consequences. A yellow card has the obvious consequence of creating space and tiring the opposition, whilst also encouraging the attacking team to go for a try.
Alternatively, giving players 2 yellows, similar to football, before they're sinbinned for however long, would remove some of the stigma refs have in carding players. The big stickler for me is refs being unwilling to go to their pocket. A red card does ruin games but a yellow can make them more exciting.
Anyone sorry for rambling of an a tanget. I probably should have created a new thread for most of that.
Crikey - nothing wrong with digressing - or is it just me? Some interesting ideas there dh.
I guessing that some folks will hate that the game was played as though our game will be corrupted by league. The league code is powerful in Oz, the north of England, New Guinea and west Auckland but it has no international clout to speak of. Nothing will happen to the game of union by external pressure unless the TV broadcasters form a international cartel and demand changes.
Let's just say that it's possible that we enjoyed the game at the ground but aren't recommending that this is the way our code of rugby should go.
dudebudstud
Ward Prentice (10)
Was this game televised? Anyone know where/if it could be downloaded? I really want to watch it!
S
Scoz
Guest
It was streamed on Foxsports. Some footage here:
http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/s...t-brookvale-oval/story-e6frf4pu-1226054238646
http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/s...t-brookvale-oval/story-e6frf4pu-1226054238646
RedsHappy
Tony Shaw (54)
LG: No thanks is too much for your outstanding contributions to these fora, and, more generally, via them, and, no doubt by other means too, your contributions to the passionate art of following rugby in Australia. You have few peers, sir.
When I read your posts I often gain a quite unique sense of what happened on the field; seriously, it is though I have thus seen a fine oil painting of a wonderful spectacle of ball, legs and hands vs merely drab text in front of one's eyes. Nothing else like it around.
Long may you run.
obviously with the league rules St A didn't pick legit props right? So the scrums looked distinctly league to me.
My tactic as St A would have been to kick off, not chase the kick and sit just over the half way line waiting for K to run it back and turn in into a union game, pilfer and start the attack.
My tactic as St A would have been to kick off, not chase the kick and sit just over the half way line waiting for K to run it back and turn in into a union game, pilfer and start the attack.
S
Scoz
Guest
Yeah they did pick props, however they seemed more light (schoolboys) and mobile than senior props. It really was a game of ball control against the pressure of the scoring clock. In the end, the closer the ball was turned over to the attacking half the better.
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