Ireland v Australia, Saturday 26 November

[PeterK]

I don't see the benefit of a 6:2 bench.

Who will McMahon replace and why?
Both Pocock and Hooper are 80 min players and McMahon is not better than them. Pocock is far better at the ruck and you need that against O Brien. Hooper is the better runner and makes a lot more tackles.

If he replaces Mumm that weakens the lineout and then you have 3 small players in the backrow and weakens the lineout, scrum , maul.

Timani replaces Mumm is all that is needed.

Douglas replaces Arnold.

 

[dru]

I don't see the benefit of a 6:2 bench.

Who will McMahon replace and why?
Both Pocock and Hooper are 80 min players and McMahon is not better than them. Pocock is far better at the ruck and you need that against O Brien. Hooper is the better runner and makes a lot more tackles.

If he replaces Mumm that weakens the lineout and then you have 3 small players in the backrow and weakens the lineout, scrum , maul.

Timani replaces Mumm is all that is needed.

Douglas replaces Arnold.

Agree on this. 5/3 would be my choice. Let's see what Cheika finally decides.

 

[Twoilms]

I don't see the benefit of a 6:2 bench.

Who will McMahon replace and why?
Both Pocock and Hooper are 80 min players and McMahon is not better than them. Pocock is far better at the ruck and you need that against O Brien. Hooper is the better runner and makes a lot more tackles.

If he replaces Mumm that weakens the lineout and then you have 3 small players in the backrow and weakens the lineout, scrum , maul.

Timani replaces Mumm is all that is needed.

Douglas replaces Arnold.

In case of injury to either Poey or Hoops (yeah i know). I don't see Sefa being of any greater value off the bench than McMahon. He covers one backline position, maybe 13 dubiously. Plus, a knackered Hooper or Pocock may not necessarily be better than a fresh McMahon.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I wish Dean Mumm would retire to put the rest of the country out of misery. If he's still playing at 100, the indications are that he will still be one of the coach's favourites.

Even with him starting, I'd have gone for Timani at No 8 and one of Hooper/Pocock on the bench. But it would seem the Coaching staff have some obscure plan for the way they think Ireland will be playing the game.

 

[fatprop]

I wish Dean Mumm would retire to put the rest of the country out of misery. If he's still playing at 100, the indications are that he will still be one of the coach's favourites.

Even with him starting, I'd have gone for Timani at No 8 and one of Hooper/Pocock on the bench. But it would seem the Coaching staff have some obscure plan for the way they think Ireland will be playing the game.

How is it obscure? They have explained their decision, it isn't an unreasonable premise.

And Pocock is a better 8 than Timani, Timani has been solid, but he hasn't been running bigger meters or making more tackles than Pocock will @ 8

 

[dru]

How is it obscure? They have explained their decision, it isn't an unreasonable premise.

And Pocock is a better 8 than Timani, Timani has been solid, but he hasn't been running bigger meters or making more tackles than Pocock will @ 8

We have to match tactical kicking and the line out. This may not be the key tactic from either team is the game, but it will be if we don't attempt to match them. After that it's about the ruck and matching the Irish loose forwards - a clear call for the Pooper.

Everything else explains itself from there. I'm with you FP - no confusion, clarity of purpose, clarity of selection.

 

[PeterK]

In case of injury to either Poey or Hoops (yeah i know). I don't see Sefa being of any greater value off the bench than McMahon. He covers one backline position, maybe 13 dubiously. Plus, a knackered Hooper or Pocock may not necessarily be better than a fresh McMahon.

Pocock or Hooper get injured then Timani goes to 8 Mumm stays at 6 for 80 mins problem resolved.

Do you want a bench for injuries or impact to win the game?

Naivalu is very fast adds a lot more threat than Speight.

Foley can grubber through and Naivalu chase it really fast, like the one he almost scored against France. Naivalu adds another dimension McMahon doesn't.

 

[PeterK]

How is it obscure? They have explained their decision, it isn't an unreasonable premise.

And Pocock is a better 8 than Timani, Timani has been solid, but he hasn't been running bigger meters or making more tackles than Pocock will @ 8

I agree.

However Timani Pocock is a better 7 than Hooper.

Timani is a better 8 than Hooper. Remember outside the scrum this is the role Hooper is doing.

Hooper has only been solid - good on the NH tour.
Pocock been immense Scotland, France as examples.

Timani has been better than Hooper in the NH games.
Hooper has been playing about the same level as Mumm and Fardy so he isn't playing at a level that justifies the back row imbalance.

 

[PeterK]

Wallabies game will revolve around mobility and fast ball at the ruck.

With a NH ref and the Irish backrow it won't happen alah Scottish game.

The Irish will get big ball carriers over the ad line time and again and offload. Without Timani no one will drive them back behind the gain line.

Also without Timani the gainline will be hard to achieve.

If they had Timani the Wallaby lineout would actually be stronger than Ireland's giving them even more options.

I hope that Foley takes advantage of DHP and Folau in the air and kicks to them in attack. Also uses the grubber.

It seems the Wallabies have Plan A and thats it , their team selection makes them more one dimensional.

Ireland can play it in the forwards running big ball carriers, compete at the breakdown and kick and play territory keeping Wallabies hemmed in.

Wallabies only dominate the Irish forwards in mobility and that can be negated.

 

[Zero_Cool]

I know there has been a lot of discussion about Mumm and the other loose forwards, but I was wondering what people think about a few other selections.

Slipper being on the bench instead of Robertson?

And after watching this morning's game (Australia v French Barbarians) how is Andrew not Ready? (Puns always intended)

How is it Speight has managed to keep his spot?

And should Izzy play somewhere else like on the wing or at outside center and DHP/Morahan play 15?

 

[Zero_Cool]

Wallabies game will revolve around mobility and fast ball at the ruck.

Also without Timani the gainline will be hard to achieve.

I actually haven't really seen Timani be THAT good at getting over the gain line, he doesn't ever outright win the contract and is usally 50/50. I think Timani is a solid player and that he can develop into a good player but perhaps he's a bit of a Will Skelton.

 

[KOB1987]

I wish Dean Mumm would retire to put the rest of the country out of misery. If he's still playing at 100, the indications are that he will still be one of the coach's favourites.

Even with him starting, I'd have gone for Timani at No 8 and one of Hooper/Pocock on the bench. But it would seem the Coaching staff have some obscure plan for the way they think Ireland will be playing the game.

Yes we know your views on Dean Mumm BR and I'm sure that back in the day you would have more than had his measure

Let's not forget that despite the views of many of our own on here, he was/is a very highly regarded player in the Aviva Cup, and the UK generally.

I'll leave it there, my view on his inclusion is known, for the purpose he was selected it's between he and Fardy, neither have been outstanding, so it's 50/50 for mine, but if it's the lineout that got him over the line then that makes sense.

 

[fatprop]

I agree.

However Timani Pocock is a better 7 than Hooper.

Timani is a better 8 than Hooper. Remember outside the scrum this is the role Hooper is doing.

Hooper has only been solid - good on the NH tour.
Pocock been immense Scotland, France as examples.

Timani has been better than Hooper in the NH games.
Hooper has been playing about the same level as Mumm and Fardy so he isn't playing at a level that justifies the back row imbalance.

We get to disagree their, Hooper does a shed load of work incredibly consistently. He pretty well leads the defensive line all match

I suspect he and Pocock are first on the forwards team sheet and the rest are worked out around them.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I agree.

However Timani Pocock is a better 7 than Hooper.

Timani is a better 8 than Hooper. Remember outside the scrum this is the role Hooper is doing.

Hooper has only been solid - good on the NH tour.
Pocock been immense Scotland, France as examples.

Timani has been better than Hooper in the NH games.
Hooper has been playing about the same level as Mumm and Fardy so he isn't playing at a level that justifies the back row imbalance.

Don't think Hooper is playing the traditional 8-man role at all - he's one of the flanks of the 1-3-3-1 pods that the Wallabies use, he's not there to get over the advantage line. The guys in the pods are there for that.

When Timani plays, he's used in the pods, when he's not Mumm goes in, leaving the Pooper on either side

 

[Twoilms]

PK, Timani and Hooper perform completely different roles so comparing them is a litte apples and oranges, plus Timani has in no way impressed more than Hooper has in the tour. You just want Hooper benched for Pocock, which is fine. Don't think it'll happen if the upside is merely having Timani starting.

 

[Slim 293]

I'll leave it there, my view on his inclusion is known, for the purpose he was selected it's between he and Fardy, neither have been outstanding, so it's 50/50 for mine, but if it's the lineout that got him over the line then that makes sense.

I wouldn't say it's been 50/50..........

Fardy's form has been much better this year, but Mumm's attributes are being preferred to bring balance into the back 5 due to lineout issues and lack of decent ball carriers.

If Coleman wasn't injured we may have seen a different lineup...........

So while I don't particularly rate Mumm, it is a reasonable decision from Cheika............

But I expect Fardy brought back into the starting lineup next year with Pocock away.

 

[Twoilms]

I wouldn't say it's been 50/50....

Fardy's form has been much better this year, but Mumm's attributes are being preferred to bring balance into the back 5 due to lineout issues and lack of decent ball carriers.

If Coleman wasn't injured we may have seen a different lineup.....

So while I don't particularly rate Mumm, it is a reasonable decision from Cheika....

But I expect Fardy brought back into the starting lineup next year with Pocock away.

I hope by next year we start looking at a longer-term option. Neither Mumm or Fardy are particularly great or young. Don't know who though. Maybe Dempsey.

 

[Scoey]

Higginbotham is back and I know he's getting on (will have just turned 33 at RWC19) so not a 'long term option' but could be an option building to 2019.

 

[Joe Blow]

I don't think Fardy will come straight in next year. Maybe Timani goes to 6 and we bring in a wider running 8 like Higginbotham or Holloway.
That will be a balanced back row with McMahon on the bench.

 

[Kevin77]

Interesting Ireland selection. Garry Ringrose shoehorned into 12 - he's an out and out 13 (although has played wing too). He's definitely the future of Irish rugby and it's a great positive selection. There were other options at 12 but none clear cut with the injury to Henshaw.

Earls over Zebo is apparently to do with Zebo not training much this week. Ireland won't lose anything there.

Henderson in for Ryan in the second row is a little surprise too. Henderson once again is the coming man and a beast in contact and probably in there for his dynamism and ruck work. He's like an extra back rower, perhaps there to combat the strenth in the Australian back row. Ireland may lose a little in the lineout and maul without Ryan but overall it won't weaken them. Perhaps just provide them with some different strengths.