Ireland v Australia, Saturday 26 November

[Slim 293]

Second citing in four matches.........

If he gets suspended, again, we might have to go with the "penalty magnet" against England.

 

[fatprop]

Second citing in four matches...

If he gets suspended, again, we might have to go with the "penalty magnet" against England.

who is the ref?

Pocock got smashed in the penalties as well and the "penalty magnet" could just add to that misery if the ref is prone to be as harsh on the ruck area and pilfering as the Frenchman

 

[KOB1987]

who is the ref?

Pocock got smashed in the penalties as well and the "penalty magnet" could just add to that misery if the ref is prone to be as harsh on the ruck area and pilfering as the Frenchman

Peyper

 

[Strewthcobber]

There were two Scottish players from the world cup who were suspended for the same thing. Yellow card deserved, guy is a muppet

Ford and Gray had their bans overturned.

Having conducted a detailed review of all the evidence, including new submissions from the players and their representatives, along with all available camera angles, the appeal committee dismissed the finding that the players had committed an act of foul play as the player had not been dropped or driven and therefore the tackle was not dangerous.

http://m.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/34527131

 

[TOCC]

Pocock got smashed in the penalties as well and the "penalty magnet" could just add to that misery if the ref is prone to be as harsh on the ruck area and pilfering as the Frenchman

Which game?
Pocock was only penalised once against Ireland, less then Sio, Moore and Mumm

 

[Brumby Runner]

Doesn't matter, I you lift an opponent's body beyond the horizontal then you are responsible for whatever happens afterwards. Doesn't matter if it is a clean out or a tackle, it's treated the same. Where the head hits the ground first, then it's supposed to be an automatic red card - hence the citing.

IIRC we had a player red carded in the same match a couple of years back for a similar action - Kuridrani?.

Found it.

And iirc Kuridrani got about a six week holiday for that one. Can't see Mumm getting more than a week or two, if that, given more recent citings/penalties. WR (World Rugby) is going soft.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Mumm:
0 passes, 2 Runs for 15meters
7 tackles(lowest in the forwards) 1 miss
1 lineout win, 1 stolen
2 penalties, 1 Yellow Card

Simmons:
6 passes, 7 runs for 36meters
15 tackles, 1 miss
2 line out wins, 0 stolen
0 penalties, 0 yellow cards

As i said, pre-conceived opinions.

Where do you get your stats from TOCC?

 

[amirite]

With Mumm's 'spear clean-out', if that's a thing, the bloke's torso was already on a 'head down, bum up' angle. This should reduce the sentence, but still there was a needless lift so there's no avoiding it. When you lift someone, you put yourself (and them) at risk.

Lifting aside, it was a bad clean out from a technical perspective. The Irish bloke had great shape and you were never going to shift him unless you did a very well executed crock roll, but Mumm tried to clean him conventionally. Silly stuff.

Other than that I actually think Mumm anecdotally had a good game. Physical in contact and pretty busy. Shame he missed his chance to silence doubters, of which there is now many.

 

[wamberal]

Apart from anything else he did, Mumm managed to steal a lineout on Ireland's throw about 10 metres out, in the early stages of the game, when they were hammering our line.


I've said it before, and I will say it again, it was the sheer stupidity and poor skills of our backs that lost us that game. Ireland had their reserve half-back on the wing, for crying out aloud, the whole of the second half.


All we had to do was to play a sensible game, the tries would have come regularly against a totally disorganised backline. But no, we had to try to score from everywhere, the low point of which was a totally stupid attempt to run the ball back and score an 80 metre try. We farked it up. That was the turning point.

 

[Blue]

Under Michael Cheika the Wallabies discipline, a hallmark of their game in years gone by, has gone to complete shit.

At least half if not more if the 13 penalties were utterly stupid. Players flopping over the ruck, playing at the ball even after the ref called ruck (at least three times I could count). There were at most three penalties that could be called questionable. Nothing unusual.

It is very clear to me that Cheika is coaching an approach at the breakdown that is designed to push the line of the law to the limit and with most refs this simply is not working.

Add to that the usual (almost guaranteed) brain explosions you have in just about every test from either or all of Simmons, Fardy and Mumm and you are ALWAYS on the wrong end of the ref.

There have been too many tests over that last year where the Wobs have ended up on the wrong end of the penalty ledger.

There is an obvious pattern here.

PS. pick a captain that builds good rapport with refs. Moore had the interpersonal skills of a brick. It does not help.

 

[Blue]

Apart from anything else he did, Mumm managed to steal a lineout on Ireland's throw about 10 metres out, in the early stages of the game, when they were hammering our line.


I've said it before, and I will say it again, it was the sheer stupidity and poor skills of our backs that lost us that game. Ireland had their reserve half-back on the wing, for crying out aloud, the whole of the second half.


All we had to do was to play a sensible game, the tries would have come regularly against a totally disorganised backline. But no, we had to try to score from everywhere, the low point of which was a totally stupid attempt to run the ball back and score an 80 metre try. We farked it up. That was the turning point.

Instead Ireland kept sucking you into a physical scrap and you fell for it.

 

[wamberal]

Not so sure about that, from what I saw we had enough clean ball to score five tries in the second half, if we had just gone through our phases. Not to mention the tries that we bombed through poor handling and stupid passes.

 

[Scrubber2050]

You need a bit of a reality check, mate. Have a look at where our code stands in the hierarchy of Australian sport. And have a look at where rugby stands in the hierarchy of several of our competitors who, by the way, also have much larger populations to choose from.


We have no god-given "right" to be second, third, or fifth. We should belong in the top 10. That's about all we can say.


Being in the top three is an extraordinary achievement.

Just going thru the 15 pages of posts.

The reality is that we are not performing to a level that Australians expect. Really don't think too many pundits put us at the top, but I don't want to be anywhere other than 2. That is an achievable goal

 

[Scrubber2050]

The most overrated and over paid wallaby ever. No judgment.

One of the worst examples of a bloke hogging the ball at the teams expense. If Cheika had some nuts he would bench him this week and stick DHP at 15

Folau has never been a team man. He is Brand Folau. He just wanted to score the try. He fucked us all.

Grand Slam fucked ( at least we would of had a chance against England)

The bloke should but won't, cop a lot of flak.

 

[Blue]

One of the worsy examples of a bloke hogging the ball at the teams expense. If Cheika had some nuts he would bench him this week and stick DHP at 15

Folau has never been a team man. He is Brand Folau. He just wanted to score the try. He fucked us all.

Grand Slam fucked ( at least we would of had a chance against England)

The bloke should but won't, cop a lot of flak.

Is it that or is it a case of hey Izzy, you da man. When you get the ball just do your thing?

 

[Scrubber2050]

To me the Ref was terrible, From the Irish perspective he was terrific.

Penalties are given, generally reasonably fair and balanced.

If the coach coaches players to play on the edge then one can lay some blame on the coach.

Ultimately it is the players responsibly. Our lack of discipline is and has been terrible and often compounded by Chek in a press conference. He came across badly to me trying to put ALL the blame on the Frog Ref..
I wonder if Folau had passed the ball and Foel kicked the goal thereby winning the game if Chek would have been as scathing as he was. I think not. It is actually Israel who should be copping it.

Our tight five were poor overall. Sio, Moore and Arnold need to be rested this week as well as one of Hooper or Pocock. Would actually like to see Carter given another shot and start Simmons and Douglas. Timani was sorely missed. Chek continues with the failed Pooper and only God knows why.

Would love to see DHP go to fullback and Israel at least benched. Genia was also pretty dam average. Start Phipps (yeah yeah, I know he's a Tah). Am sure he will start Foley at 10 over Cooper (and I agree with that but FFS give Cooper 20 minutes)

But I think Chek's use of the bench deserves some criticism as well.

Fast Eddie has started throwing the hand grenades

 

[barbarian]

Folau has never been a team man. He is Brand Folau. He just wanted to score the try. He fucked us all.
.

I think this is a bit too far. It's one thing to say his passing game isn't great (beacuse it isn't), but another thing to say he's 'never been a team man'. FWIW he also threw the last pass in two of our three tries against the Irish.

He's a softly spoken bloke who, to my eyes, has never put 'Brand Folau' before the team. He's the most recognisable bloke, the most marketable, and could put himself out there MUCH more than he does.

Considering all this, I think his behaviour is laudable - a far cry from how other 'marketable' players behaved in the past.
.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Fair enough Baba in respect of the team man comment.

 

[Gagger]

Interesting comment from the front page by TheRealHodgie here 13 hours ago

----------------------------------------

Can we talk the penalty count?

It feels a bit "awks" when Michael Cheika headlines the presser with strongly implied issues with the penalty count BEFORE he congratulates Ireland. However, when the WBs survived the first 20 minutes with only 20-30% possession, it's worth investigating why.
Here's an analysis that could have had Australia with two fewer penalty concessions and four more penalties earned in the first 20 minutes alone. Yep, that's a reversal of fortunes equivalent to SIX PENALTIES WORTH of extra territory, possession, points, or some combination.

1. Henry Speight was penalised for being offside as he exited a ruck near our right wing on defence and scurried back onside. He played no part in the game, no material effect. No penalty.

2. Ireland made a break down their right wing, DHP made a tackle, was sitting, arms in the air, in an effort to stay out of the way. The ref played advantage to Ireland and after the next phase returned and awarded the penalty to Ireland. No material effect, No penalty should have been awarded.

3. In that subsequent play, Pocock was all over the ball, on his feet and the Ireland player held on. Without the return to the previous advantage (above), penalty to Australia.

4. Earlier, on our lineout throw on our right side, our player initially successfully taps the ball down towards our receiver, Moments (literally) later, the Ireland lock knocks the Australian player's hand and distorts the flight of the ball. It bounces in front of the receiver (Moore) and back into the arms of the Ireland player. Australia loses possession on our own ball. An alternative interpretation is that the Ireland player, having lost the contest for the ball, should have been penalised for interfering with the WB jumper. Penalty to Australia.

5. Scrum on our own line, WB scrum under pressure, Genia rescues the ball from the base of the scrum as it shifts backwards and passes to (either DHP or Foley, feel free to check). Ireland half back Murray reaches out for the ball and knocks it on. Sorry, knocks it DOWN. The ref awards a scrum to Australia. Why not a penalty for a deliberate knock on? Penalty to Australia.

6. Ireland go right from a scrum in roughly the middle of the pitch, big blind side (or small open). Probably 3 on 3 and the Ireland centres play a somewhat intricate fake inside line and then break to the outside. Ireland make big metres. Reece Hodge was impeded in trying to take one of the Ireland players. Definitely impeded - could/should have been ruled obstruction. Penalty to Australia.
Some/all of these are open to interpretation. But have a look for yourself! These were in the first critical 20 minutes when the Wallabies had no ball!

Maybe Cheika had a point?

 

[amirite]

I think Folau (by virtue of being an excellent player) just often doesn't take the simple solution. His offloads in contact when a pass would've worked, or his 'draw and not pass' against the Irish are part of this.

To an extent you don't want to coach it out of him either, it's part of what makes him a good player. The best athletes back themselves in against anyone, it's a mentality thing.