Ireland v Australia
- Thread starter boyo
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We still won 13 from 15 of our own lineouts (one of which was lost because we didn't throw the ball in in time) and all our scrum feeds.
Also, neither bench prop was penalised at scrum time.
I agree the lineout became messy but we still generally won our own ball (just a couple of times with a player on the ground not jumping).
Consdiering Skelton won one of those lineouts standing on the ground, you'd figure that the lineout didn't go to shit because of him. He clearly wasn't the intended target for the ball.
tragic
John Solomon (38)
Then put him in a wallabies jersey when that time comes...
tragic
John Solomon (38)
When did we start giving away wallabies jerseys based on future potential?
There are deficiencies in his game that may be fixed with good coaching and improved fitness - which will likely take a season or more. Thats what super rugby is for. Its not going to happen on a 6 week tour.
There are deficiencies in his game that may be fixed with good coaching and improved fitness - which will likely take a season or more. Thats what super rugby is for. Its not going to happen on a 6 week tour.
It's not based on future potential though. It's based on what he can do in general play.
We've been lacking impact in our forwards, particularly late in games all year. With TPN, Moore, Higgers, Fardy and Palu out, we are struggling for runners to get us across the advantage line. Add to that we lose out around the field when Slipper and Kepu come off.
Lock is clearly our weakest position in the pack and Simmons who is the 80 minute lock does plenty for our set piece but isn't generally a strong ball runner.
You make it sound like Simmons, Carter and Horwill have been doing the job well all season and there are no issues at lock.
Wilson
David Codey (61)
Putting aside Skelton's scrum issues (which should be a deal breaker in their own atm) he hasn't been living up to this potential around the field and aside from his debut hasn't really offered more than any other lock in this regard.
When his point of difference isn't that different, what's the point in picking him?
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Simmons Carter and Horwill certainly haven't gone great (IMO also) but when comparing their performances to Skelton's overall performance the other three have been absolutely fabulously fantasticly awesomely great
He made several mistakes against France and was poor. No one is questioning that.
He was good around the field against Wales.
Horwill also had a shocker last week and came off struggling with a knee injury. Who knows how healthy he is this week.
Carter was pretty awful the week before against Wales and was dropped to give Horwill his first starting cap in a while.
If Simmons, Horwill and Carter were producing consistently good performances I don't think we'd see Skelton around the 23 right now. They're not though. If we had forwards in other positions available right now, we might not be seeing Skelton selected either.
They really haven't. Simmons has been the best but even his form hasn't been close to what it was last year.
You make it sound like Skelton has played most of the tests this year. He hasn't. It's been Simmons, Carter and Horwill and our locks have been consistently outplayed by their opponents.
tragic
John Solomon (38)
Nope - I agree we are struggling for locks with impact, and this deficit is compounded by having a workman like no 8 with a high work rate but who also lacks the impact of a read or vermeulen.
I don't agree the answer is to put on a substitute late in the game who puts pressure on our scrum and lineout right at the time when ball retention is crucial. His work rate in defence is also poor (even though he may make the occasional dominant tackle on someone who runs right at him). He may be the answer in the future but I don't agree he is now.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
All Skelton has done in the Green and Gold was have a very good match against France (game 2 I think) mid year.
The rest of his performances are forgetable
The rest of his performances are forgetable
Please point me to the memorable performances by our other locks.
I am not saying that Skelton has been good but you're making it sound like it's a travesty that Carter and Horwill haven't been picked for every single game.
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
Please don;t think that I reckon the other 3 are pplaying well all the time.
When compsared to the other 3 , Skelton, overall, is poorER
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
I'm in full agreement that Skelton was poor last week but how was he worse than Horwill??? He dropped a crucial pill early in the game 5m out and then missed two critical tackles. All within the first 20 minutes.
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How is this for a stat? Ireland haven't scored a try against us in their last 3 matches! All 3 matches they finished on 15 with 5 penalty goals.
Have to go back to 1999 to find the last time they've scored more than 2 tries against us.
tragic
John Solomon (38)
And skeletons work rate in defence and ball handling is better??
No doubt options are lacking but if I was an opposition coach I would have a very clear game plan to exploit the scrum deficiencies that occur late in the game when skelton comes on and it would involve scrum penalties followed by 3 pts or an attacking lineout.
qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Agreed, he had a poor one vs Wales which cost him his spot for Horwil but he certainly didn't take it so back to Carter.
Not the workrate but effectiveness. I'd rather Skelton's scrum weakness than have Horwill slipping off tackles again. I've been impressed by Skelton's tackling, I thought he'd get exploited by the agile guys but he's making them stick.
Hawko
Tony Shaw (54)
Added to which he is carrying a knee injury (note the taping that was already there) and it clearly got injured further during the game (after which he had so much tape his knee looked as big as his bum). I know about miracle cures these days but from experience it is bloody hard to run fast and turn quickly when your knee's not right.
If his knee recovers then I expect him to replace Skelton on the bench for the England game. Looking at the teams I think this game for Skelton is far better than against England, who will want to drive our scrum into the ground to make a statement for next year. So if Horwill can play 20 next week I'll be happy with that.
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