Italy v Australia, Sunday Nov 10 2013, Stadio Olimpico

[fatprop]

No I don't think he should have been although he did all that was asked of him very well.

Folau and Cooper were more integral in breaking the Italian defense down.

Spiro gives a good description of the benefits of Cummins

The outanding Wallaby back was Nick Cummins, who set up a try and scored two himself. He presents defenders with the awful prospect of having to try to tackle a moving ensemble of elbows, knees and an angry, intense force that will not settle for anything but a do-or-die (for both parties in the collision) encounter with opponents.

Cummins is an example, often disregarded in Australian rugby (Rob Egerton in an early era is another similar type), of a player who gives 110 per cent in everything he does which makes him far more valuable to his side than more obviously talented players who perform below the level of their talents in hard matches.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/11/11/spiro-no-shroud-for-the-wallabies-against-italy-at-turin/

Is very rarely that I agree with Spiro, but here I think he is spot on

 

[Braveheart81]

I think it was Phil Kearns on Saturday night who compared Cummins to Ben Tune in his playing style. Once he gets the ball, he just pins his ears back and charges head long for the corner.

His intensity and fearlessness with ball in hand is quite unmatched amongst our other wingers.

I feel like his enthusiasm lifts the team as well.

 

[Ignoto]

It was a good win, but let's not kid ourselves about the opposition.

I'm curious about this dismissive attitude everyone has. People are expecting the Wallabies to put on a flawless win week in week out after spending years playing mediocre. It's not as simple as switching on a light and us playing a game that would put fear into the All Blacks. To simply say the Azzurri are easy beats is extremely arrogant on our behalf especially when we have no basis to be so cocky.

What is quite ironic is, the gap between us and New Zealand and the gap between us and Italy is a bees' dick - 9.35 points to 9.53. Doesn't really demonstrate us as being such a superior team is it?

Casting my memory back, I remember us losing to Scotland (twice), Samoa and England (at home) all lower ranked teams and two of them people have specifically mentioned are better teams than the Italians.

So, just relax. It was a good win, the boys deserve some credit for a good win and would be fully aware of the amount of points we allowed the Italians to get. Right now, I would imagine a lot of the guys are wanting to take a couple weeks off after an extremely long season.

 

[Richo]

Based on yesterday's matches we're behind NZ, SA, France and Wales by quite a distance. Ireland will be a test for us this week, they looked very good against Samoa.

Obviously we are behind NZ and SA. Wales haven't beaten us in 5 years, so I don't think it's possible to say we're "behind them" until we actually lose. France might be closer. Next year's June tests might be very interesting.

 

[Richo]

I'm curious about this dismissive attitude everyone has. People are expecting the Wallabies to put on a flawless win week in week out after spending years playing mediocre. It's not as simple as switching on a light and us playing a game that would put fear into the All Blacks. To simply say the Azzurri are easy beats is extremely arrogant on our behalf especially when we have no basis to be so cocky.

What is quite ironic is, the gap between us and New Zealand and the gap between us and Italy is a bees' dick - 9.35 points to 9.53. Doesn't really demonstrate us as being such a superior team is it?

Casting my memory back, I remember us losing to Scotland (twice), Samoa and England (at home) all lower ranked teams and two of them people have specifically mentioned are better teams than the Italians.

So, just relax. It was a good win, the boys deserve some credit for a good win and would be fully aware of the amount of points we allowed the Italians to get. Right now, I would imagine a lot of the guys are wanting to take a couple weeks off after an extremely long season.

I agree with you. But calling Italy a tier one side is delusional. They're a solid team and it was a good win, but it's not like we're suddenly thrashing one of the best teams in the world.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

At the end of day the team is working its way into ewen's rythm there will be wins and losses but i am not getting to upset or excited. We have numerous players to come back into the fold and we have a lot of new combos at work.

These are just one tests and we have our world cup pool anyway so our ranking doesnt matter to much to be honest. As long as we see this rythm of play become more consistent the results don't bother me. It's the rugby championship and bledisloe i care about.

We need to rememeber the reason a lot of us disliked dean's wasn't due to the fact that their was no improvement things had stagnated, nothign was evolving. However i think we can all agree that at least we can see some sort of evolution taking place currently

 

[Braveheart81]

We need to rememeber the reason a lot of us disliked dean's wasn't due to the fact that their was no improvement things had stagnated, nothign was evolving. However i think we can all agree that at least we can see some sort of evolution taking place currently

In my mind all we've seen so far is the ability to smash a couple of bad teams and the inability to compete with good teams.

I still don't think we've seen any sort of evolution. We've been able to score points more easily in recent matches but we've also leaked points far more easily.

 

[fatprop]

In my mind all we've seen so far is the ability to smash a couple of bad teams and the inability to compete with good teams.

I still don't think we've seen any sort of evolution. We've been able to score points more easily in recent matches but we've also leaked points far more easily.

yep, knocking up big scores against Argentina and Italy is nothing more than nice

we have a long, long way to go

 

[Ignoto]

yep, knocking up big scores against Argentina and Italy is nothing more than nice

we have a long, long way to go

We also chalked up the most points on the All Blacks ever in the same time. In the time Links been in charge, he's only had the chance to play three matches against lesser ranked sides and won them all.

There's plenty of room to move upwards on and there's still a lot of issues going on which aren't easy fixes ie the lack of props and available depth across the forwards.

 

[RoffsChoice]

What tier does that that put NZ and South Africa on?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_rugby_union_teams#Tier_1

 

[en_force_er]

I don't know how the Tier system works but surely the Japs could be Tier 1.

I mean their quality isn't there but they have a fully professional league they have control over and 95% of their players play locally.

Their real issue that stops them from getting better is the fact their league has 14 teams. If they had an 8 team league the standard would be much better and thus their international team.

 

[Richo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_rugby_union_teams#Tier_1

Ha. Touché.

Colloquially, however, the Italians are clearly on a distinctly differently level from most of the rest of that group.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Yeah, I'm just being pedantic though. Although this is the team that beat Ireland and France in the Six Nations this year, nothing to scoff at. They didn't play well though.

 

[Braveheart81]

The difference in intensity between this game and the Wales vs South Africa game that followed later was palpable.

The first 20 minutes or so of that test was pretty electrifying in terms of physicality and speed.

I haven't watched the ABs vs France yet.

 

[en_force_er]

Colloquially, however, the Italians are clearly on a distinctly differently level from most of the rest of that group.

Most of, but I think they're ahead on the ledger against Scotland over the last 3-4 years and that's a home union. Plus let's remember Wales pre-WC were a mess, regularly losing to Fiji with a full strength side.

I don't think Italy are that far off the 8-ball, though they were shocking on Sat night but I think it was mostly due to experimental combos.

They moved their crash ball 12 to 13 (and brought in a new 2nd distributer style 12), they moved their 13 to wing, their other wing was a newbie, and their 15 (the Aussie Mclean) didn't start at all in the 6N (though I think he's handy).

They also had a largely untried hooker and prop combo (though Castro has plenty of experience), their 2nd row were both older statesmen who have largely played off the bench in recent years, and their 10 has been overlooked for Italian honours for the Lion's share of his career.

I think they were experimenting with their XV more than we were TBH.

 

[Bruce Ross]

People are expecting the Wallabies to put on a flawless win week in week out after spending years playing mediocre.

I'm astonished, Ignoto, although I believe the world would be a better place if there were more who were so innocently naïve. What I understand you to mean is that as a matter of fact there are "people" i.e., more than one person, who "expect the Wallabies to put on a flawless win week in week out".

Such people, God bless them, are the natural prey of rich widows from Nigeria.
.

 

[Quick Hands]

The difference in intensity between this game and the Wales vs South Africa game that followed later was palpable.

The first 20 minutes or so of that test was pretty electrifying in terms of physicality and speed.

I haven't watched the ABs vs France yet.

ABs v France was high intensity for 80 minutes. The end result came down to a couple of moments of brilliance by the ABs and a couple of lapses by the French. Quite a few tiers above the Wallabies v Italy match.

 

[thierry dusautoir]

The thing I like about France is that they don't let the all blacks push them around they will fire up and crack some skulls. Sometimes I wish someone from the wallabies did that and dam the consequences....

 

[Quick Hands]

Obviously we are behind NZ and SA. Wales haven't beaten us in 5 years, so I don't think it's possible to say we're "behind them" until we actually lose. France might be closer. Next year's June tests might be very interesting.

In terms of what we saw on Saturday/Sunday, I would put Wales ahead of us at the moment (only an opinion). An opinion which will be either proven correct or incorrect (I hope) in a couple of weeks.

 

[Quick Hands]

I'm curious about this dismissive attitude everyone has. People are expecting the Wallabies to put on a flawless win week in week out after spending years playing mediocre. quote]
.

I don't think anyone is expecting them to play flawless rugby (not even their coach). Many of us are simply trying to put a lid on the euphoria of beating Italy. It was a good win, and the Wallabies were clearly the better side, but perhaps the 30 point margin flattered us a little