Italy v Australia, Sunday Nov 10 2013, Stadio Olimpico

[Braveheart81]

Who would you play at 6? Dennis? Gill? The cupboard is pretty bare.


Have you ever played under a coach who was concerned about hurting your feelings? Bizarre.

I would have moved Mowen back to 6 where has has played his best tests, picked McCalman at 8, and put Simmons back in at lock at the expense of Timani. Douglas would have started with Horwill on the bench.

I suspect some of Ewen's honey moon period has been eaten up by residual punter discontent, lingering from Dean's belated boning.

Usually first year coaches can by and large get away with whatever they like. But I will admit I could live with all of Ewen's other perplexing selections, except the front row. That is growing old, quick.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that he has 2 wins from 8 tests and has shown least willingness to make selection changes in our poorest performing positions.

I don't think it has anything to do with Deans. Deans had a longer honeymoon period because our results were good in his first year (9 from 14). His honeymoon period ran out in 2009 when our results were poor.

 

[jay-c]

That makes no sense to me at all. I'll see him as the best man for the job if he proves he's the best man for the job. I want to here the explanation for the processes the Wallabies are going through. Even if you disagree with certain individual decisions, as long as the fundamental processes are in good shape then you have to assume that eventually the team will come good.

Currently I don't know where we stand on a lot of things. I don't understand what we're trying to do at the breakdown. I don't understand what the go is with Genia box-kicking. I don't understand why we're still seeing Hooper and Mowen meerkating at the back of the scrum. Why aren't these questions being asked by journalists? And if they are being asked, why aren't they being answered?

Take the meerkating, are Hooper and Mowen being instructed to do that, or are they taking it upon themselves? If it's not a coaching instruction, why aren't they being coached to just stick their heads down and push? And if it is a coaching instruction, why are we willingly sacrificing scrum strength for marginally better line speed on defence off the base of the scrum?

i totally agree that id like explanations on a lot of things too
but you gotta be realistic- hes in a position of power and the moment he starts justifying his decisions to average joe it brings him down to average joes level
people wont repect him and he loses all his authority
think about the people who are successful and i assure you they arent justifying themselves to people below them
it seems so simple but it is so important

 

[Dumbledore]

But here's the thing, he's not in a position of power over us. At all. He's in a position of power over his players.

If coaches were chosen by people power, Deans would have been thrown out by the ARU as soon as the tantrums from Queensland started. It just doesn't work like that.

This is a disaffected market at the moment. There are very few, if any, rugby people in Australia that are happy with the way things are going at the moment. I think one way the ARU could begin to reverse that is to try and actively engage the supporter base in the decision making process. Not actually ask for advice, but at least explain why certain moves have been made.

One of the other main things we're all worried about is player workload and the potential for burnout and injuries. Maybe the ARU have got data that says Hooper and Moore are actually completely fine and don't need the rest. Why not get this stuff out there?

I wouldn't lose respect for Link for being more open, I'd gain it. There's a difference between justifying decisions and explaining the processes that are in place. At the moment I just have no idea what the Wallabies are trying to do, why certain things are happening, and it's frustrating. I just don't get how continuing to alienate the fanbase leads to a loss of authority within the team.

 

[Braveheart81]

hes in a position of power and the moment he starts justifying his decisions to average joe it brings him down to average joes level
people wont repect him and he loses all his authority

Where does spending most of the week (from his post match press conference onwards) complaining about the referee sit amongst this?

Surely that is the most quintessential average joe behaviour there is.

 

[BPC]

The selection of Simmons on the side of the scrum in combination with locks Sitaleki Timani and James Horwill strengthens the Qantas Wallabies set-piece while also providing a physical edge against an abrasive Italian forward pack.

I get it but only if they turn up for 80 mins Simmons is not exactly an enforcer so I am not sure how he helps against an abrasive forward pack.

Qantas Wallabies coach Ewen McKenzie said the inclusion of Simmons and the changes on the bench were tactical adjustments made to suit the style of game they are preparing to play on Saturday night. (Sunday morning 1am AEDT). UH OH zzzzzzzzzzzzz Simmons is a lineout specialist so presumably lots of lineouts, which means lots of tactical kicking which means lots of shithouse kicking.
“Most of the Italian’s strength is derived through their forwards and that’s where they will look to take us on, especially at set-piece. We have to take them on up front,” McKenzie said.
No you hold them up front and take them on out wide..you play your game Given our poor performance in the scrum and breakdown, I am not sure how persisting with the players who failed in these duties against England and adding another lineout jumper will help us 'take them on up front'.

“Having Simmo return will benefit us in that regard. He’s instrumental in us winning our own ball while we’ll be looking for him to put pressure on their lineout, and their scrum. ok fair Presumably he means winning our ball at the breakdown as he separates winning the ball from the lineout and scrum. Simmons, as much as he has been improving, isn't going to add that much to the breakdown. The comment would have made more sense if starting Gill.

“Aside from that, he is one of our most athletic and powerful forwards. He has trained very well at blindside flanker and it will be interesting to see how he goes with a bit more space. EOY EXPERIMENT YAY THATS WHAT THE TOUR'S FOR Yay, experiment with moving existing players out of position rather than experiment with the fringe players (Gill, Dennis, Phipps, Foley etc) or reserves (Robinson, Fainga'a) who have not secured a starting spot on the tour. Double yay!

“However, no matter what position he is in, he’ll continue to bring his abrasive style. Currently, he sits in the top two for us in terms of the volume of tackles and also his tackle completions.

“We’ve also made changes to our bench to allow a few players an opportunity there. EOY EXPERIMENT YAY THATS WHAT THE TOUR'S FOR Barely any changes of note and none really to the starters.

 

[jay-c]

engaging the supporter base in the decision making process is just about the worst possible thing to do> ask the tahs how well the fan forum worked out for them
mckenzie is best served by ignoring faults (in public) and showcasing our strengths> giving the perception of being bullet proof even if it sounds absurd
when he shows our weaknesses thats what the papers will write about, thats what oppositions will think about us
look at the abs- you think our perception of them isnt influenced by what they want us to think about them? they tell everyone they're invincible and what do people believe?
think carefully about how this may have influenced the recent election results

you can control how people think about you by controlling the info they are using to form perceptions of you
if link allows one decision to be questioned then every decision will be questioned
dont wanna profile u mate but im assuming your a youngest child and have never worked in management> dont wanna insult you but you have to understand how important this is > try look at it from my point of view, can u see the logic behind it>

 

[ChargerWA]

A camel is a horse designed by committee. Unfortunately the Wallabies are currently a dressage pony, all show and pomp but not much good at pulling the plow.

 

[I like to watch]

If Link determines the best way to manage punters expectations,is to hold himself above them.
He will be judged by his results.
You sure he wants that to happen ATM?
I would just like him to explain why he picks a forward pack to play a conservative game plan,but does not select the 9 & 10 best suited for that game plan.
It would also be handy for him to give us some guidance about when he expects to give the less experienced players real game time.

 

[jay-c]

your totally missing the point
but in short ill ad that i too would like some explanations but also understand the importance of why the coach of the national team isnt going to justify his decisions to me or anyone whos not the pulverisor

 

[Dumbledore]

@jay-c

Nice try sport, but wrong on both counts. Want me to have a go at doing you?

Personally I think you've got an utterly archaic view of sports fandom. But hey, maybe you're right. Maybe the Australian rugby public are really really fucking stupid. Maybe we need Link to tell us what we saw. Maybe if Link keeps blaming the referees we'll all start to think we actually do have a super scrum and we're being persecuted? Worked pretty well with refugees and the carbon tax this election. Shift the blame, keep the people in the dark. Love it.

If you seriously think other teams and referees are influenced by what they read in the media you're delusional. They watch hours and hours and hours of tape. And guess what they see? Our scrum wavering between occasional bouts of competence before degenerating once again into an utter farce. Link having a cry in the media isn't suddenly going to change their minds.

It might make a few punters feel better, because a nice comfortable excuse always does, but its short-sighted, cynical, and entirely typical of Australian rugby.

 

[scaraby]

Whoa its getting to beer o'clock and its not the scholarship thread so lets all breathe.
I guess the main argument is whether a 60 test playing ,world cup winning, super 15 rugby winning coach should be explaining to the Scarabies of this world why he is keeping what I perceive to be an underdone front row on the paddock for...............i better get another beer to make myself more worthy......ah the dreams....

 

[jay-c]

@jay-c

Nice try sport, but wrong on both counts. Want me to have a go at doing you?

Personally I think you've got an utterly archaic view of sports fandom. But hey, maybe you're right. Maybe the Australian rugby public are really really fucking stupid. Maybe we need Link to tell us what we saw. Maybe if Link keeps blaming the referees we'll all start to think we actually do have a super scrum and we're being persecuted? Worked pretty well with refugees and the carbon tax this election. Shift the blame, keep the people in the dark. Love it.

If you seriously think other teams and referees are influenced by what they read in the media you're delusional. They watch hours and hours and hours of tape. And guess what they see? Our scrum wavering between occasional bouts of competence before degenerating once again into an utter farce. Link having a cry in the media isn't suddenly going to change their minds.

It might make a few punters feel better, because a nice comfortable excuse always does, but its short-sighted, cynical, and entirely typical of Australian rugby.

i was simply trying to point out to you that engaging the public in decision making is a fucking hopeless idea and just as stupid as a person in power justifying his position or decision making to people below him
you really dont seem to understand this basic management principle
and the importance of image and perception was obviously important in the election because the liberals won with the public believing they were a strong colsolidated party while the impression of the labour party was that they were a shambles
everyone whinged that they wernt doing anything in the lead up to the election, but by not doing anything they wernt doing anything wrong- contrast that to the labour partys efforts

if you have a look at some of my posts you will see im hugely critical of what links doing with the scrum- i also think the longer he continues with what hes doing the worse its becoming
and youve really skimmed over the important part of what i was saying in that link shouldnt be giving any attention to our weaknesses whatsoever and especially not making excuses to the public
in fact you've completely missread what ive been trying to help you understand

 

[Gnostic]

A camel is a horse designed by committee. Unfortunately the Wallabies are currently a dressage pony, all show and pomp but not much good at pulling the plow.

A sway backed, prolapsed mare with broken feet that thinks it is a dressage pony is more like it.

 

[Gnostic]

I can't see if anybody has raised it already, but Link has tried playing a pure second rower at 6 before. Anybody remember the raging success that James Horwill was against the beefed up Tahs pack a few years back? And that was before James' injury and form problems.

I saw that selection (against the Tahs) as an attempt to match the Tahs huge pack and provide another lineout option. It didn't work, though at the time I thought it could have.

Similarly, this will depend a hell of a lot on how Simmons plays but I must say I am not brimming with confidence.

 

[en_force_er]

I can't see if anybody has raised it already, but Link has tried playing a pure second rower at 6 before. Anybody remember the raging success that James Horwill was against the beefed up Tahs pack a few years back? And that was before James' injury and form problems.

I saw that selection (against the Tahs) as an attempt to match the Tahs huge pack and provide another lineout option. It didn't work, though at the time I thought it could have.

Similarly, this will depend a hell of a lot on how Simmons plays but I must say I am not brimming with confidence.

It also strikes me as odd that in that circumstance with Simmons available he moved Horwill to 6 and this time the other way around.

It's a talking point though with Italy playing two locks listed at 1.96cm (and I'd say Pavanello is at most 1.92cm) and their 6 and 8 being tall but no taller than Douglas or Mowen.

We'll be much bigger than them, I don't know if this'll have an effect but it is a fact. Should at least bode well for our line outs but Parisse is a clever jumper when in motion.

 

[Gnostic]

It also strikes me as odd that in that circumstance with Simmons available he moved Horwill to 6 and this time the other way around.

It's a talking point though with Italy playing two locks listed at 1.96cm (and I'd say Pavanello is at most 1.92cm) and their 6 and 8 being tall but no taller than Douglas or Mowen.

We'll be much bigger than them, I don't know if this'll have an effect but it is a fact. Should at least bode well for our line outs but Parisse is a clever jumper when in motion.

I agree but there is a very big risk that the Wallabies woeful accuracy with regard to kicking will mean they don't get the lineouts they want, and then that advantage is largely negated and Simmons has never played 6 at Pro level that I can recall. It could be a master stroke, but it doesn't address the other issues that have been discussed here for the last week and more.

 

[en_force_er]

I agree but there is a very big risk that the Wallabies woeful accuracy with regard to kicking will mean they don't get the lineouts they want, and then that advantage is largely negated and Simmons has never played 6 at Pro level that I can recall. It could be a master stroke, but it doesn't address the other issues that have been discussed here for the last week and more.

You're absolutely right about the kicking for touch, didn't even consider that angle.

I'd be surprised if it was a good selection. It won't be the reason we lose, but I don't think it'll turn the tide either.

In fact, the only Wob 2nd rower to actually play plenty of 6 in his career is Timani but maybe they want him in the row for scrummaging purposes.

 

[KOB1987]

Who would you play at 6? Dennis? Gill? The cupboard is pretty bare.

Mowen, and McAlman at 8.

That said, its a good game to experiment, if it's not working they'll work it out pretty quickly and use the bench to sort it. Hopefully after 15 minutes though, not with 10 to go.

 

[scaraby]

Mowen, and McAlman at 8.

That said, its a good game to experiment, if it's not working they'll work it out pretty quickly and use the bench to sort it. Hopefully after 15 minutes though, not with 10 to go.

Cmon what would a wallaby game be without the last 2 minutes being 41 phases of mind blowing attack just to really show us what they could really do at the next game...it's usually against the all blacks though...didn't SImmons play some 6 early in his super career?

 

[Forcefield]

A three-way Australia, New Zealand and South Africa all to win by 13 or more pays out at about 15-1. Pretty good odds I reckon.