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Key Wallaby Players to be Rested and Rotated throughout S15

Discussion in 'Rugby Discussion' started by ChargerWA, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. ChargerWA Mark Loane (55)

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    A great initiative and obviously desperately needed. The devil will of course be in the detail though.

    The Irish method seems fair. Only start 6 out of 8 games, off the bench in 1 and rested for 1. In an 18 game season it really only equates to rested for two games and off the bench for two. For the top teams, they will be able to target the games against lower teams to rest their stars. For the bottom teams it won't be so critical. The only time I can see it being a big issue will be for the middle of the pack teams at the pointy end of the season, fighting to make the finals and if they haven't rested their players yet.

    Having said that, with the pressure on all teams to perform in a crowded market it will be in no way as simple as I have stated above. Unless all everyone in Australian Rugby gets on board for the greater good and just accepts it as the way things are.

    A massive positive for me in the article is the likelihood of increasing the EPS to compensate the teams. Any measure which creates more spaces in the professional squads can only be a good thing for identifying and developing talent.

    Read the article here.
  2. ChargerWA Mark Loane (55)

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    Then again applying the Matt Burke logic, considering the impact this will have on the Western Force i'm probably not qualified to comment.:)
  3. Bardon Peter Fenwicke (45)

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    increasing the EPS to accompany this move shouldn't just be likely it's essential for it to succeed. if you stick with the same numbers as presently in the Aus franchise squads then it just shifts the injury problem from established test players who'll play less games to younger players who'll have to take up the slack. This would hamper the development of young players.

    The reason rotation works so well here in Ireland is due to the size of the squads at Leinster, Munster and Ulster have with Connacht on a long term program to build their dept also. The Leinster squad is 40 players most of whom have international caps to their names and of those that don't again the majority would be expected to earn their first cap in the not too distant future.

    What Cheika and especially Schmidt brought to Leinster is a belief in the system and the way the team plays rather than an over reliance on star players. Often people attribute Leinster's dominance of the Heineken Cup to the fact that they can rest their star players in the Pro12. But they often miss the point that when certain stars aren't playing the guy who's filling in is gaining experience and is working on their combinations with the other established players. Then when certain star players are unavailable for big HEC games the guy stepping in is less likely to look out of place as he's used to the system and he's already got his combinations sorted.

    Rotation doesn't just save the star players it creates opportunities for younger players but a big enough squad is needed so that younger players can be protected from the rigours of hard seasons as they develop. One thing I've really noticed about Aus rugby recently is an over reliance on star players to make things happen and a very defeatist attitude prior to games when those players aren't available.

    Some of it stems from a lack of confidence in Deans tactics or for the majority the absence of any tactics leading to the need for players to do something to spark the team. However the recent injury crisis has shown that when given the chance some players are able to step up and seize the opportunity.

    Of course it's still best to have your best 15 on the field and rotation will definitely help with that but it will also mean more confidence in the guys who are coming off the bench or into the squad as cover. Taking Pocock as an example any team in the world would miss a player of his quality but I think compared to last year fans as less worried by his absence and are more likely to say he should be given the time to recover fully before being brought back.

    Hopefully this policy works well to build stronger Aus franchises while creating more opportunities for young players. One thing I would ask is that if Aus does reach the position of having strong franchises and a strong national team you please let the IRFU in on the secret of converting provincial success to the national squad. Personally I think having a good attack/backs coach at national level would go a long way. But what would I know?
    Swarley, Richo, TheHam and 2 others like this.
  4. Sully John Eales (66)

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    I believe this is a problem made by the ARU! They reduced squad sizes and injuries went up. There is a direct link.
    Ruggo, Swarley, mjw and 4 others like this.
  5. Troy Jim Clark (26)

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    Agreed with re to the squad sizes, but haven't the Saffa teams got bigger squads? They also seem to have a few injuries. I heard somewhere that it might be down to the players not being happy, low morale etc? The AIG AB's seem to be happy and are playing well and not to many injuries, the Wallabies & the Boks are struggling and have injuries.
  6. GaffaCHinO Greg Davis (50)

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    But really how many of the injured players out at the moment can be traced back to work load and not a freak incident or collision? Genia played non stop for 2 years without injury (form no so good some of that time) but is now on the sideline because of an incident where he got caught in the wrong position in a ruck, nothing to do with work load.
    armatt and qwerty51 like this.
  7. kiap Mark Ella (57)

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    Anecdotally, you cannot say.

    Good statistical analysis can provide answers, though. I would be surprised if occurrences of these "freak accidents" did not not increase with increased workload.
    armatt and TheHam like this.
  8. GaffaCHinO Greg Davis (50)

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    The more time your on the field the more chance you have of getting injured?;)
    armatt, TheHam and Jnor like this.
  9. kiap Mark Ella (57)

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    Heheh - simple as that.

    If you look across many sports, though, plenty of athletes 'peak' for a limited number of events and manage their out times. Getting the workload wrong can increase injuries.
  10. Hawko John Hipwell (52)

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    This supposedly new initiative is just way, way too late. The problem has been evident at international level for at least 12 months and if you look at the Waratah history 2-3 years. Only now are the ARU starting to consider what might be done. As with all bad management, they are constantly chasing answers to last year's problems. Good management identifies problems early and sets up systems to deal with them. NZ have been rotating and resting players for at least two years (eg the Crusaders have been rotating their props for two years now) and they have significantly lower attrition rates. The Crusaders props example is only one of many. Had Deans still been coach there the Franks Bros would have played till they dropped and only then would Crockett have had significant game time.

    The two teams with the highest attrition rate internationally are SA and Oz. They are also the two teams who have a "pick the best team and play till you're injured" mentality. You'll note that this proposal doesn't seem to affect the Wallabies - play till you drop will certainly continue unabated, but the Super teams will have to rotate. And if "resting" means you don't play but you still have to train then it will be no use at all. You can't play 16-19 Super games plus trials and 15 internationals with all the associated training plus maybe some club games and not suffer burnout.

    No one seems to know why Australian hamstrings are so much weaker than New Zealanders; and no one seems to have given the issue much thought. Maybe its over-training, maybe its too much gym work, maybe its undertraining. But why can I list at least half a dozen Aussie top line players with dodgy hamstrings, but not one Kiwi? Without any evidence to the contrary, I suggest it might have something to do with the quantity and intensity of workload we impose on test level players.

    Kudos to Link and the Reds who are starting their own academy. The best managements are always in front of the game.

    And now the situation for the Rebels, Force and Brumbies will be dire. By forcing international players to be rested and then boosting EPS squads to compensate those three teams, without a local competition to resource from, will have to get quality replacements. But all the best players are already committed to the various squads, academies and EPS's. Where do they get the replacements from at the last minute, with the pre-season already underway?

    The problem existed before they reduced squad sizes. Waratahs 2011 should have been the wake up call. But nobody did anything about it. The ARU failing is not that they caused the injury/burnout problem but that they did not put in place structures to deal with it and then they restricted the squad sizes so that teams which were "unlucky" had no effective back-ups. Two players for each position plus five floaters is ridiculous for teams playing up to 19 Super games with three or four internationals in the mix as well. Each franchise needs a minimum of 40 players and no player should be allowed to start in more than 12 Super games. Super team thinking has to go! Super squad thinking has to take over.

    Same at international level. You need squads of 35 playes, with injury replacement coming from a cover squad of 15 or so. Players should not play every game unless injured, players need to be rotated to allow rest and recovery to happen properly. If you don't do this, then you are forced by injury to do it anyway. When you are forced to do it by injury, you then bring in new players and try to bring them up to speed in a week. And we wonder why our backline is so disfunctional. When you plan to do it, everyone has trained together, knows the playbook and knows each others' play. The players seamlessly move into and out of the team with little apparent impact on overall performance. Think of the way Messam, Vito and Thompson work seamlessly at 6, or Carter and Cruden at 10. You get this not by luck but by careful planning and implimentation.

    But with JON, the Board, Nucifora and Deans at the helm we will always be playing catch-up.
    TheHam likes this.
  11. Hawko John Hipwell (52)

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    Like just wasn't enough! As Lee would say, this post is GOLD.
  12. The Rant Fred Wood (13)

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    While I'm not convinced this will reduce injuries I still think it's a great idea to give some of the wallabies who will otherwise have a lot more high intensity games in a calendar year a chance to rest and prolong both career and spirit.
    Genia at the world cup last year was a perfect example of a bright oil flame that was down to the dreggs by the WC.

    Better man management wouldn't hurt either - deans seems to play people into the dirt - how many need surgery post WC and how many times has he brought back players way to early and don't start me on the bench again. He's asking the S15 teams to do what he wont.

    But then who wants to be rested for a test.
  13. fatprop David Wilson (68)

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    Cheika uses logic
  14. fatprop David Wilson (68)

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    Cheika uses logic
  15. Scotty David Codey (61)

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    Exactly. Hypocrisy from Deans who played injured players and picked others returning from injury too early. Mitchell the prime example.

    Now he expects the provinces to make up for his mistakes?
  16. Sully John Eales (66)

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    It's a bit rough to blame Deans for the injury problems. I think everyone has contributed. The ARU, wallabies and some Super Rugby franchises all have a hand in this.

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  17. fatprop David Wilson (68)

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    I find that a bit unreasonable as well, a coach (any pro coach) takes his medical, trainers and the actual players advise.

    If a player breaks down again, how is it then purely the coaches fault?
  18. louie Desmond Connor (43)

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    Your right fatprop it wasn't the coaches fault, but years of playing rugby without breaks since he was a youngest has left mitchells bodys stuffed.
  19. Ignoto Chilla Wilson (44)

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    Are we sure the medical staff advising the ARU is up to scratch? Drew Mitchell's surprise run left a few specialists scratching their head when I spoke to them and then he returned back to the game with a snapped tendon that wasn't picked up.
  20. Scotty David Codey (61)

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    I am not blaming Deans, but he certainly doesn't appear to be taking any responsibility himself. Putting the pressure on the super clubs deflects it from himself.
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