Law question - TPN's tackling technique

[Slim 293]

so diving across in cover defense, on say a wet day, sliding the bottom leg is illegal?

Nope, not suggesting that all......

 

[Dumbledore]

Looking at the screenshot of Saia Fainga'a, his technique is quite different to TPN.

TPN has been getting really low to the ground (on one knee in one instance) and trying to make a more legitimate tackle around knee height or slightly higher with his arms being actively involved in the tackle.

Fainga'a starts from much higher and then burrows down such that the angle of his back/head is pointing towards the ground. This makes it impossible for his arms to grasp the tackled player and makes it far more likely for the player to get flipped in the air.

Like I said in the OP, I wasn't meaning to have a go at TPN directly - it was just him that happened to grab my attention at the time. I was quite shocked by that Fainga'a tackle at the ground, he belted Neville who was fairly shifting - sent him absolutely flying. If you look at the footage of it, he doesn't even pretend to make a tackle, there's no attempt to wrap the arms at all.

Not meaning to hang players out to dry here, more just wondering why something like that is allowed to go by unnoticed.

 

[Scoey]

Without wanting to get the Queensland boys circling the wagons, surely this is a shoulder charge by Saia. Makes absolutely no effort to wrap his arms, just runs his shoulder into Neville at around knee-height.

The still of that one doesn't look good and the video is not much better. As a QLDer I'm not about to start circling the wagon but I will say, there wasn't much use of the arms in that tackle. I think he probably attempted to use them, or at least it looked like it to me as they were there or thereabouts. I would say the issue is more with the timing in this case. None of that excuses that it was a pretty sloppy tackle attempt with no arms and should be treated as such.

That's part of my beef with these types of tackles. Pretty small margin for error and when they aren't nailed which is often the case, the collision is fairly spectacular and seems quite uncontrolled. That to me spells, recipe for injury.

 

[USARugger]

By instituting a contact above the knee rule, how would the IRB word it so that last ditch efforts like the shoelace tackle and the ankle tap aren't legislated against. Tackling from the ground, let's say for example Player A is bumped off a tackle, attempting to tackle Player B. If Player C resumes the tackle that A fell off, but B offloads to a fourth player D, is A prohibited from trying to tackle D simply because he is on the ground? (in reference to 14.1(d) that Scott Austin mentioned).

I see far too many problems with other elements of the game for a rule change to specifically stop TPN or SF tackling styles.

Changes like these would eventually lead to other changes that would negatively effect rugby as an entertainment sport.

I think something as simple as making the direction of the tackle a factor could potentially fix that conflict. Just thinking off the top of my head that pretty much every tap tackle I've ever seen was from the side of or from behind the player being tackled. Logically that's how it would wind up the vast majority of the time, otherwise why would you be trying to tap tackle? So if a condition for the below the knee rule was it had to be a tackle on the "front" of the ball-carrier that could clear up that issue.

That's part of my beef with these types of tackles. Pretty small margin for error and when they aren't nailed which is often the case, the collision is fairly spectacular and seems quite uncontrolled. That to me spells, recipe for injury.

Exactly. Even in the TPN v Robinson tackle TPN "wraps" but because of the nature of the tackling method that "wrap" equates to one arm loosely hanging around Robinson's ankle while he gets ping-ponged around uncontrollably.

 

[Orange Peeler]

I'm sorry but I just don't believe you.

What does worry me is that people are openly traducing a true contributor to the game. TPN is a wonderful player and a club man who gives back more to rugby than most posters on here could ever dream of.

To suggest he's deliberately aiming to hurt people is despicable and I'd rather not hear it from you, Orange Peeler. Please take it somewhere else.

Groucho,

All I have done is express my views on the Grass Cutting tackle technique. At no time did I mention the name TPN, however while where on the subject, I believe that TPN has cut his Rugby Career short by at least five years due to injuries suffered by his poor tackling technique (whatever that may be).

 

[Brumbieman]

rubbish, it is a good low tackle, TPN's version is just a more aggressive/effective version (when he gets it right) of what Fainga does each week.

Exactly. Stop whingeing girls, we play rugby not football. Its a good, low tackle that immediately fells the ball carrier. I wish more people in Australia knew how to go low and complete a tackle effectively.

 

[Rassie]

That's a very interesting point - 14.1(d) says "A player on the ground must not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent." One knee on the ground constitutes being on the ground when in a tackle or ruck situation.

How often does he slide in on his knees though? Think most of the time he just dives aiming for below the knee.

The first grasscutter he went for on Friday against Beale (at 15:54) his knees were just off the ground when he made contact. The second against Robinson (at 17:12) he definitely had one knee on the ground before making the tackle.

Regardless of the law, it's really poor technique leading with your head and whilst he created the injury for Robinson that eventually saw him replaced on Friday, it's usually TPN who gets knocked out.

That's a very interesting point - 14.1(d) says "A player on the ground must not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent." One knee on the ground constitutes being on the ground when in a tackle or ruck situation.

How often does he slide in on his knees though? Think most of the time he just dives aiming for below the knee.

The first grasscutter he went for on Friday against Beale (at 15:54) his knees were just off the ground when he made contact. The second against Robinson (at 17:12) he definitely had one knee on the ground before making the tackle.

Regardless of the law, it's really poor technique leading with your head and whilst he created the injury for Robinson that eventually saw him replaced on Friday, it's usually TPN who gets knocked out.

Reminds me of this incident

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Reminds me of this incident

I hope that post brings the avalanche of tape of truly foul play perpetrated by Seth Efrika over the years

 

[Slim 293]

I hope that post brings the avalanche of tape of truly foul play perpetrated by Seth Efrika over the years

or New Zealand.........

 

[cyclopath]

We should perhaps be cautious about complaining about possibly one-eyed videos about Wallaby players up to no good.
Just sayin'.

 

[Rassie]

I hope that post brings the avalanche of tape of truly foul play perpetrated by Seth Efrika over the years

lol Nothing to do with that its been done by a Australian but just some of the clever tactics which is wrong being used. That is why we employ guys like Bakkies because you won't be lying on the wrong side trying to slow ball down or grab his leg like that to create a hole.

I see the new in thing at the moment is making a tackle and "accidentally" fall on the wrong side then roll away which slow the ball up that second which equals to about 10 meters saved in todays game.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I see the new in thing at the moment is making a tackle and "accidentally" fall on the wrong side then roll away which slow the ball up that second which equals to about 10 meters saved in todays game.

On my viewing of the first half of the Tahs v Blues the Blues had perfected and taken to a new level the similarly disruptive practice of occupying the space between the ball and the opponents at ruck time.
The Argie ref really has very little clue about breakdowns I am afraid.

 

[Rassie]

On my viewing of the first half of the Tahs v Blues the Blues had perfected and taken to a new level the similarly disruptive practice of occupying the space between the ball and the opponents at ruck time.
The Argie ref really has very little clue about breakdowns I am afraid.

I was downloading the Argentine laws of the game as it went on.

Feel sorry for the guy. Don't think he knows much about Kiwi teams cause they are masters with the "accidental" thing. Also they have clamped down and marked enforcers as well as make rucking illegal so you are at the mercy of a referee and his interpretation at the breakdown.

 

[Braveheart81]

Pastrana lost control of the game a few times.

The worst moment was after Kingston had made a massive run down the right hand side of the field to about 15-20 metres out from the line. The Blues player stood up in the middle of the ruck as Lucas was waiting to clear the ball and just picked it up. He then put it back down and the play continued but he slowed everything down by about a second with either an amazingly cynical or stupid professional foul.

He should get a yellow card for that every day of the week.

 

[Rassie]

Pastrana lost control of the game a few times.

The worst moment was after Kingston had made a massive run down the right hand side of the field to about 15-20 metres out from the line. The Blues player stood up in the middle of the ruck as Lucas was waiting to clear the ball and just picked it up. He then put it back down and the play continued but he slowed everything down by about a second with either an amazingly cynical or stupid professional foul.

He should get a yellow card for that every day of the week.

The game before I had a laugh. I think even Bryce had a laugh at home as it was like a stereo shop at a riot at those rucks. Free for all on your feet or not.

 

[Hawko]

The other big thing in gridiron is that you often get tackled/hit without expecting it. That is not a problem that really exists in rugby.

Tell that to Foley after Ranger creamed him. I was on the phone for an ambulance as soon as I saw it!

 

[BPC]

In about four rucks in a row I watched the Blues No.4 roll onto the NSW side (even when not the tackler) and slooooowly get to his feets, impeding the half back and sloooooowly make his way back to the Blues side of the ruck. Pastrana had no real clue so I don't think No.4 even bothered with the usual butter-wouldn't-melt-in-my-mouth, who-me?, I-was-trying-to get-out-of-the-way-honestly-ref look that forwards work so hard at perfecting.

 

[Braveheart81]

In about four rucks in a row I watched the Blues No.4 roll onto the NSW side (even when not the tackler) and slooooowly get to his feets, impeding the half back and sloooooowly make his way back to the Blues side of the ruck. Pastrana had no real clue so I don't think No.4 even bothered with the usual butter-wouldn't-melt-in-my-mouth, who-me?, I-was-trying-to get-out-of-the-way-honestly-ref look that forwards work so hard at perfecting.

Culum Retallick.

When I got home and watched the replay, you could see how distraught he was when he gave away the penalty that cost them the game.

I really had no sympathy for him. He was a serial infringer for the whole game and got away with it on most occasions.

If any player deserved to be the guy to cost his team the game, it was him.

 

[qwerty51]

It was a clear high tackle missed anyway.

 

[USARugger]