the plastic paddy
John Solomon (38)
As long as Kiss sticks to defence it is great he is staying on. As for Jackson, if he doesn't kick for Ulster he cannot kick for Ireland PERIOD. I agree that he looks like a shadow of his former self.
Lions Watch
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the plastic paddy
John Solomon (38)
Thank fuck BJ Botha's visa situation means he can't play for the Barbarians against the Sky Sports xv in Hong Kong!!
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
I was talking about Kiss being kept on as the defensive coach, I haven't really been following the USAvIRE tour closely.
To be frank I never really thought Jackson was the answer, or an answer to Ireland's problems. He's always looked the most comfortable playing kick-centric territorial rugby. I hate that shit.
Gotta agree Kidney destroyed him this 6N.
To be frank I never really thought Jackson was the answer, or an answer to Ireland's problems. He's always looked the most comfortable playing kick-centric territorial rugby. I hate that shit.
Gotta agree Kidney destroyed him this 6N.
the plastic paddy
John Solomon (38)
I think Jackson has been put in an unenviable position myself. He is a strong defender, can offer a running threat and can pass very nicely. His problem is that he generally plays 10 with Peinaar at 9, consequently one of the best scrum halfs in the world takes most of the game management responsibility onto himself and also takes the place kicks. Jackson then plays for Ireland having not kicked for his province. Murray tended to take the game management responsibility onto himself when Jackson was playing in the last six nations but he couldn't take the place kicks. I have consistently maintained that Jackson cannot take the place kicks for Ireland if he doesn't kick for his province.
JSRF10
Dick Tooth (41)
Have to agree with everything there PP, the only thing I'd add is that in Ireland we have th idea that the 10 has to be the goal kicker too. If Jackson was the way we wanted to go, at least a back up kicker should have been in the team. Murray is a fine example of this mentality, great kicker at underage level but seemingly stops once he gets to senior level. This is something we need to get rid off at senior level in Ireland
the plastic paddy
John Solomon (38)
I could not agree more, with the way Murray times the ball kicking out of hand I should imagine he could give the ball a fair whack off the ground, maybe a positive that might come out of the sky sports tour would be Murray kicking some goals. Young Luke McGrath has place kicked at underage as well I think, hope he keeps it up.
FingalRaven
Frank Nicholson (4)
FingalRaven
Frank Nicholson (4)
Class really shows, to quote the ref "he called me a fucking cheat". Lions tour over before it started for him. Parisse got 40 days, reduced to 30 days for a similar incident earlier this year and with Hartley previous record.......... Best should be a shoe in if he manages to get through today's game without injuries or red cards.
Boomer
Alfred Walker (16)
Been done elsewhere, but this is terribly poor.
Colonial masters out from ye olde Blighty? Piss weak.
Anyone been watching Sky? They've re-hashed the Wallabies "Butterflies" ad campaign from a couple of years ago in their promos. Weak.
We did it best, first.
Bardon
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Hartley has an absolutely terrible record but he still manages to get influential figures to speak on his behalf and get any sanction reduced to a level appropriate to a first time offender. Last year he was up for biting they managed to convince the panel that he was a reformed character, despite the evidence to the contrary that had him standing in front of them.
Graham Rowntree told the panel that he was future England captain material and he only got 8 weeks for the bite on Stephen Ferris. He's also been banned since then, he got 2 weeks in December for striking Rory Best in a HEC game. That time the panel decided that the offence was an entry level one and gave him the minimum 2 weeks because he pleaded guilty after the game.
Don't be surprised if he doesn't get as long as Parisse for this one either. If ever there was a guy who should be getting near the top end for offences it's this Hartley due to his appauling record but he always seems to get better treatment than most when it comes to dishing out punishment.
Hope he does get a decent amount of time off. If he doesn't you can be almost certain he's going to re-offend at some point during the Lions tour as he really doesn't handle pressure very well and if I was an Aussie player I'd be trying to wind him up any time he's on the field.
If he is out of the Lions Rory Best should be the automatic pick. But I won't be surprised if he's overlooked again due to Gatland having a personal dislike of him.
Hartley red card was the first in the Premiership Final so it's good that he'll go down in history for the one thing he should be remember for. For anyone interested the referee he was abusing was Wayne Barnes.
Graham Rowntree told the panel that he was future England captain material and he only got 8 weeks for the bite on Stephen Ferris. He's also been banned since then, he got 2 weeks in December for striking Rory Best in a HEC game. That time the panel decided that the offence was an entry level one and gave him the minimum 2 weeks because he pleaded guilty after the game.
Don't be surprised if he doesn't get as long as Parisse for this one either. If ever there was a guy who should be getting near the top end for offences it's this Hartley due to his appauling record but he always seems to get better treatment than most when it comes to dishing out punishment.
Hope he does get a decent amount of time off. If he doesn't you can be almost certain he's going to re-offend at some point during the Lions tour as he really doesn't handle pressure very well and if I was an Aussie player I'd be trying to wind him up any time he's on the field.
If he is out of the Lions Rory Best should be the automatic pick. But I won't be surprised if he's overlooked again due to Gatland having a personal dislike of him.
Hartley red card was the first in the Premiership Final so it's good that he'll go down in history for the one thing he should be remember for. For anyone interested the referee he was abusing was Wayne Barnes.
Bardon
Peter Fenwicke (45)
Forgot to mention that the statement from the Lions was that if he is unavailable for the Force game (5th of June) he'll be replaced in the squad. So if they stick to that anything from 2 weeks up will see him replaced. It is possible that his red card could be deemed as sufficient punishment.
Anything longer than 2 weeks but not enough to cover the entire Lions tour will probably see him on the standby list as injury cover. So even if he's dropped there's still a chance he could be getting cited in Aus in the next couple of months.
Anything longer than 2 weeks but not enough to cover the entire Lions tour will probably see him on the standby list as injury cover. So even if he's dropped there's still a chance he could be getting cited in Aus in the next couple of months.
JSRF10
Dick Tooth (41)
Hartley is a disgusting individual on the rugby pitch, in yet another big game he loses cool. This incident just shows how flawed his selection for the Lions was in first place. Minimum ban for this kind of incident is 6 weeks, given that he has multiple previous citings he should be getting 12. Given its the RFU he'll 4 I reckon.
Graham Rowntree would want to look at himself in the mirror, how he can defend Hartley like that and than champion him for the Lions tour is beyond me. I wonder if he still thinks he is England captaincy material? This guy has abused a referee and called his integrity into question, he's done it on the biggest stage domestically with millions of impressive rugby mad kids watching. If I were Rowntree I'd be questioning whether he should be pulling on an England jersey ever again let alone captaining the bloody team!
Best will be picked now, but I'd say he'll see a lot less game time than he deserves. Given Hibbard is coming back form knee surgery and Youngs throwing is worse than Bests, Rory should be the favourite for the test position. Gatland says the players need to put aside past rivalries and feuds for the good of the tour, we'll soon find out if that is going to apply to him as well!
Graham Rowntree would want to look at himself in the mirror, how he can defend Hartley like that and than champion him for the Lions tour is beyond me. I wonder if he still thinks he is England captaincy material? This guy has abused a referee and called his integrity into question, he's done it on the biggest stage domestically with millions of impressive rugby mad kids watching. If I were Rowntree I'd be questioning whether he should be pulling on an England jersey ever again let alone captaining the bloody team!
Best will be picked now, but I'd say he'll see a lot less game time than he deserves. Given Hibbard is coming back form knee surgery and Youngs throwing is worse than Bests, Rory should be the favourite for the test position. Gatland says the players need to put aside past rivalries and feuds for the good of the tour, we'll soon find out if that is going to apply to him as well!
JSRF10
Dick Tooth (41)
Just watched a few replays for the incident, he is definitely talking to Barnes IMO. His defence is pathetic although I'd expect nothing less from someone of Hartleys class or lack there of.
Interesting decision for the old school tie network at the RFU. Do they back one of their senior referees word? Or one of the senior England players word?
Interesting decision for the old school tie network at the RFU. Do they back one of their senior referees word? Or one of the senior England players word?
Italophile
Bill Watson (15)
It's standard procedure to claim you were abusing another player and not the ref. The whole sequence leading up to the card was farcical. Barnes told Myler he couldn't kick it straight out from the restart. Told him two or three times. Myler kicks it straight out.
There is now a defence of Myler emerging. He misunderstood Barnes because of Barnes' West-ish country accent. Hard to know whether to laugh or cry.
Not a great day for Lions hookers overall. Hartley unpacking his suitcase and selling his Lions gear on eBay, Tom Youngs hardly hit one of his jumpers all day.
There is now a defence of Myler emerging. He misunderstood Barnes because of Barnes' West-ish country accent. Hard to know whether to laugh or cry.
Not a great day for Lions hookers overall. Hartley unpacking his suitcase and selling his Lions gear on eBay, Tom Youngs hardly hit one of his jumpers all day.
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