Maitland for Scotland

[en_force_er]

Anyone think he could being playing in the Scottish colours by the Spring tour?

Maybe they'll make him 'earn it' first. It's a very quick turn around, he'll still be unpacking his stuff by then.

I'm interested by Scotand's creativity of late (signing Maitland and signing Saffas like Strauss on long-term contracts), we might see a very competitive Scotland outfit in a few years.

Too late for Australia, that horse has bolted. We are already Scotland's bitches.

Haha. I suppose we are, aren't we.

Scotland only have 2 domestic Pro12 teams to pick from since the Borders folded and their pool of players is one of the smallest of the Tier 1 nations.

Is there ever any talk of Boarders reemerging? Surely they could be ran on the cheap like Connacht.

There's more depth in Scotland than the 2 teams suggests, I noticed England has a fair few Scotsmen running about (Gloucester in particular).

 

[en_force_er]

I have a feeling that with SBW disappeared Fruean may be recognized for the talent he is.
My impression is that Ranger is viewed as a little (maybe more?) unreliable. Things like this don't help: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/7490952/Rugby-star-Rene-Ranger-not-guilty-of-assault
How has his NPC gone?


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He hasn't been playing for Canterbury NPC (not sure why), nor was he selected in the Crusaders 'protected' squad though apparently he could have been picked up through the 'draft' though other sides were eyeing him off.

I have no idea what any of this means but it's what's been said. The Kiwis have a wacky contracting system.

 

[teach]

Fruean can be very weak on defence, which is a big no no over here. (edit: When I say weak, compared to others, like Ben Smith who he would be competing with.)

I was listening to talk back on the way home last night and heard Brendan Laney talking about his experiences a few years ago. He went to Scotland to play club rugby after realising he would not be an All Black and made the Scotland team 3 days later, after officials realised he had a scottish grandmother. He apparently did not know he was eligible until they told him.

 

[teach]

I think Fruean's heart condition mary require him to have breaks from rugby just to manage his health.
His ITM cup has gone very well. His extra time performance against Taranaki was impressive.

 

[ACT Crusader]

On Ranger, he's had a very good NPC. Captained Northland and played in the midfield. His team struggled but he played like a man among boys for most of the comp.

 

[en_force_er]

Fruean can be very weak on defence, which is a big no no over here. (edit: When I say weak, compared to others, like Ben Smith who he would be competing with.)

I was listening to talk back on the way home last night and heard Brendan Laney talking about his experiences a few years ago. He went to Scotland to play club rugby after realising he would not be an All Black and made the Scotland team 3 days later, after officials realised he had a scottish grandmother. He apparently did not know he was eligible until they told him.

I think guys are getting more savvy on this kind of thing. Waldrom for example (the one playing for England) announced he 'realised' he was eligible to the media rather than England knocking on his door.

I hear from my friends from Italy that 3 or 4 year ago they were chasing Luke Romano very hard.

Fringe tier 1 and tier 2 teams have great scouts and they do sniff guys out, but guys playing for a country that's not considered their own just isn't as much of an epidemic as we think it is.

 

[Bon]

The talk was that Maitland was going to be de-listed by the Crusaders. The Scotch had been chasing his signature for two years [so much for poaching talent] Perhaps he jumped before he was pushed.
Whatever the best of luck to him, he has a Scottish grandfather so could make the Scotland side, I couldn't ever see him making the AB's.

 

[en_force_er]

The talk was that Maitland was going to be de-listed by the Crusaders. The Scotch had been chasing his signature for two years [so much for poaching talent] Perhaps he jumped before he was pushed.
Whatever the best of luck to him, he has a Scottish grandfather so could make the Scotland side, I couldn't ever see him making the AB's.

A lot of those southern Kiwis have thick Scottish blood, wear kilts to special occasions, and can play the bagpipers (McCaw for one). I really don't think this is as much poaching as giving them a different opportunity, they obviously have an affinity and genetic link with the culture.

That Aussie u20 player Ambrosini has moved to Italy with the intention of getting capped for Italy. He speak the language and probably spent every Sunday of his youth eating pasta at his Nonni's. Is he Italian? Maybe not strictly, but he's certainly 'Italian-Australian'.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Maybe they'll make him 'earn it' first. It's a very quick turn around, he'll still be unpacking his stuff by then.

I'm interested by Scotand's creativity of late (signing Maitland and signing Saffas like Strauss on long-term contracts), we might see a very competitive Scotland outfit in a few years.



Haha. I suppose we are, aren't we.



Is there ever any talk of Boarders reemerging? Surely they could be ran on the cheap like Connacht.

There's more depth in Scotland than the 2 teams suggests, I noticed England has a fair few Scotsmen running about (Gloucester in particular).

There have been suggestions of a re-emergence of Borders in possible future expansions of the Pro 12 to a potential Pro 14 or beyond as well as a possible third Italian squad. However, first the SRU needs to get both Edinburgh and Glasgow up on stable footings and regularly pulling in decent attendances before that could ever be considered.

As for Maitland playing for Scotland. While it would be a big ask in such a short time period, I know there are quite a few Scots who would definitely like to see it and as to paternal grandparents he's a ready made option.

 

[USARugger]

Fruean can be very weak on defence, which is a big no no over here. (edit: When I say weak, compared to others, like Ben Smith who he would be competing with.)

What this guy said. Fruean gets beat on the outside pretty regularly even at the S15 level and if you watched him play for the BaBaas he's pretty prone to gigantic brain farts on both attack and defense when he's put in a position where he has to create space for someone around him.

As for Maitland, good on him. I felt like he was undervalued by the ABs and especially the Crusaders. The guy deserves a shot at international rugby.

 

[en_force_er]

There have been suggestions of a re-emergence of Borders in possible future expansions of the Pro 12 to a potential Pro 14 or beyond as well as a possible third Italian squad. However, first the SRU needs to get both Edinburgh and Glasgow up on stable footings and regularly pulling in decent attendances before that could ever be considered.

As for Maitland playing for Scotland. While it would be a big ask in such a short time period, I know there are quite a few Scots who would definitely like to see it and as to paternal grandparents he's a ready made option.

The could always go 3rd party investor, I know it's not ideal but the option is there.

As for Italy, they're a strange beast. All their rugby strongholds are smaller cities that have question marks over their ability to support Pro12 teams and all their major cities are soccer strongholds.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The could always go 3rd party investor, I know it's not ideal but the option is there.

As for Italy, they're a strange beast. All their rugby strongholds are smaller cities that have question marks over their ability to support Pro12 teams and all their major cities are soccer strongholds.

That would be an option. Italy is odd, while I think that there probably be an third Italian squad in time as they are experiencing strong growth in terms of youth participation and audience etc; which would require a third squad, it won't be for at least 10 years. Same for Borders actually if ever

 

[en_force_er]

That would be an option. Italy is odd, while I think that there probably be an third Italian squad in time as they are experiencing strong growth in terms of youth participation and audience etc; which would require a third squad, it won't be for at least 10 years. Same for Borders actually if ever

10 years is a very long time, the kids that the franchise would be build around aren't even 12 yet. I think more like 5, specially if Italy become willing to go on a proper organised tour to find Kiwi and Aussie Italians, rather than why they do right now where they only scout Argentina and Europe and wait for the Australasian players to fall into their lap.

As for Scotland, there's at least a Pro 12 squad worth of players with origins in the boarder region, they just don't play there.

 

[Bardon]

Agree with WorkingClassRugger on both the Borders and third Italian team. Both the Scottish and Italian Unions need to get their existing teams to be self supporting before they think of going to 3 teams. Italy especially need to see how Zebre go.

Treviso have really come on leaps and bounds in the last few years and they're starting to make a big impact in the HEC. Rather than being seen as a guaranteed 5 pointer win they are now a potential banana skin at their home ground where they've taken some big scalps and have caused a few scares.

It's a pity that just when they are making an impact the English and French teams are trying to change how qualification for the HEC works. I can see the logic of the argument that 6 teams from each league would be fairer. But the development of the game in Italy is to the long term benefit of all NH club rugby.

The Scotland team is in a very interesting position. Just before the WC they looked like the most vulnerable of the traditional rugby Tier 1 nations. They had a few dry years where no real talent was coming through and things were looking really bleak. Now things are looking better for their future as there's a crop of good young players coming through Glasgow & Edinburgh and they are being supplemented by the likes of Visser. I think there will be a lot more Scots in the Lions squad than people would have predicted a year ago.

On the future expansion of the Pro12 I think the best way to go would be to have a 2nd tier including those teams that currently play in the Challenge Cup but aren't in any of the 3 major leagues. Teams like Gernika, Mogliano, Calvisano, Bucharest etc. who are not good enough to play in the Pro12 (Although Bucharest would probably make a better fist of it than Zebre) would really benefit from a 2nd Tier of the Pro12. It's not going to happen in the next few years but it's the way the organisers of the Pro12 should be thinking.

 

[en_force_er]

I think Georgia and Romania have the players to sustain a Pro12 team of MOSTLY their own players & perhaps some Russians, Portugese, or Spaniards (though the Russians mightn't agree culturally). Do they have the market for a team? They get good international crowds and it's key to remember that their player's pay needs to meet local standards, not international ones.

There's plenty of good Italians but they need to be hunted for, if I was Italian rugby i'd keep an eye on the RL WC next year and see if any of the guys playing semi-pro RL in NSW and Qld could cup it for the Zebre. It's all about creative recruitment pathways ON TOP of better local developement, many unions seem to think one means you're hurting the other but really they have to supplement one another.

Scotland's getting creative, Italy needs to as well.

 

[Bardon]

Spain and some eastern European countries have teams that compete in the Amlin Challenge Cup. Those nations you mention should be able to support at least 1 team at a Pro12 - 2 level. They would have to take a long term view but it's definitely possible to build up a league with some lower Tier 1 (Italy & Scotland), Tier 2 (Georgia & Romania) and aspiring Tier 3 (Spain, Portugal & Russia) teams. IT would also be a possibility for some of the Welsh regions who used to play in the Celtic League to participate, the likes of Neath, Ebbw Vale etc.

Initially the participants would require a lot of support from their local unions while the new competition found it's feet and it may need a restructuring or two like the Pro12 did. But long term there's the market there for it and rugby is only going to get more popular in those countries. It's really all about whether the will is there to not only get it started but to stick through the tough first 5 years or so.

The market is definitely there it just need some cultivating and proper ground work rather like how there will probably a market for Super Rugby Tier 2 in the not too distant future.

Agree on the recruitment Enforcer and it doesn't even have to be for the national team. Recruiting some ex-ABs or other players of similar standard can have a major impact on a teams that want to raise standards. Just playing and training with quality players can set new standards for home grown players to aspire. It would also mean that local players would have to be of a higher standard to regularly feature in the team. This is the path that Connacht have taken over the past few years once it was decided they would no longer be just a development province and it's starting to pay dividends even though it's still a work in progress.

 

[boyo]

Would having a Tier 2 in the Pro 12 with relegation/promotion between tiers 1 & 2 be part of the solution to the English/French complaints in the European Cups?

 

[Dan54]

See Micheal Bent from the Naki of to Leinster, t5hink he hoping to sneak into Irish consideration as Grandma was Irish.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I quite like the idea of a 2nd tier to the Pro 12 structure as it actually lends itself to such endeavours. Would certainly change the landscape of Rugby in Europe. It would provide the opportunity for both the Scottish and Italian Unions to develop their new franchise teams while looking to really embrace the likes of the Spanish, Portugese, Georgians, Belgians, Romanians and even the likes of the Germans and Poles. Some may look upon these suggestions as fanciful but with the right vision, set up and some time (with some don't expect to sell out stadiums at first) the Pro 12 could develop two distinct divisions of 12 teams forming a true Europa Rugby League.

As for Super Rugby, I actually think the potential to develop a 2nd tier is rapidly approaching. It could be done and it could help the existing partners just as much as developing nations while providing even more content for broadcasters and potentially taking the first tentative steps into new regions.

 

[Train Without a Station]

As for Super Rugby, I actually think the potential to develop a 2nd tier is rapidly approaching. It could be done and it could help the existing partners just as much as developing nations while providing even more content for broadcasters and potentially taking the first tentative steps into new regions.

I'd just be concerned about the possibility of all our teams ending up in the second tier before long.