Melbourne Rebels 2024

[Rebelsfan]

They should be blaming the RA for continuing to include them in a competition not fit for purpose.

There is no tribalism, scheduling is crap, basically just Test trial teams, no genuine growth, how do you sell membership when you can't guarantee your best players will be playing. and 100 other things that hold back the ability to attract a greater audience.

The Rebels are a symptom of a structure unfit for the marketplace.

I agree scheduling is totally crap - for us - but is very good for NZ rugby

 

[hoggy]

I agree scheduling is totally crap - for us - but is very good for NZ rugby

To an extent, but apart from the Crusaders and traditional derbies, Super Rugby is hardly hitting any KPI's in NZ either.

And if that is correct, why do we belong to something that is very good for NZ but crap for us.

 

[Strewthcobber]

All that is probably true, but for those Rebels directors - overseeing $20m of debt over just 5 years, and losing your own house to the ATO seems a pretty spectacular way of proving it to RA....

 

[dru]

RA has withheld f $1.7million in annual grants for 3 years, RA has withheld f $1.7million in annual grants for 3 years, RA has withheld f $1.7million in annual grants for 3 years, RA has withheld f $1.7million in annual grants for 3 years, RA has withheld f $1.7million in annual grants for 3 years, RA has withheld f $1.7million in annual grants for 3 years, RA has withheld f $1.7million in annual grants for 3 years, RA has withheld f $1.7million in annual grants for 3 years, RA has withheld f $1.7million in annual grants for 3 years, RA has withheld f $1.7million in annual grants for 3 years,
etc.

The Math is not working.

$1.7m x 3 = $5.1m
Claimed PAYE tax bill = $11.6m
Conclusion: RA and the RUPA wage guaranty is not the main issue here, even if correct as claimed.

I'm stunned that the ATO has apparently been mute a) for 3 years; b) until the debt climbed to 8 figures; or c) until the RA set it's path to centralisation which led to the request for financial information.

Bizarre.

 

[Slim 293]

Anyways...

North was already in the process of selling his home in Melbourne’s for up to $20 million.

The six-bedroom home, which includes a pool and a tennis court, sits on 3146sqm of land in Malvern, bordering Toorak, one of the city’s most sought after locations.

Problem... solved.

 

[Highlander35]

That's a lot of Units and Townhouses.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Well, I for one have some fond memories of the Melbourne Rebels.....

 

[Sully]

Well, I for one have some fond memories of the Melbourne Rebels.....

Re-a-Rangered

 

[Wilson]

A few more specifics around the Rebels claims against RA around tax bills and under funding in the Australian (based on claims in the Rebels ASIC fillings):

“An amount in excess of $2m the board believes represents the PAYG for Melbourne Rebels players while they were on Wallabies duties; and … an amount in excess of $6m being the alleged underfunding of the Company by RA over a number of years,” the ASIC document states.
...
A number of creditors are listed, including Rebels board member Lindsay Cattermole who is owed nearly $350,000, Tim North is owed $120,000 while NewSTAR sports agency — which manages Wallabies and Rebels stars Taniela Tupou and Carter Gordon — are owed around $20,000.

The larger creditor claims include:

*$11.6m owed to the Australian Taxation Office (ATO)
*$5.7m owed in relation to loans provided primarily by related parties
*$2.8m owed to suppliers, including amounts advanced by sponsors
*$1.1m owed to Melbourne Olympic Park Trust relating to unpaid stadium usage, plus an additional amount in relation to future lease liabilities under the existing agreement
*$712k owed to the State Revenue Office in relation to unpaid payroll tax

The documents detail unpaid superannuation owed to employees is $250k. The document also revealed Rugby Australia needed to give additional funding to the club to fund wages in order to ensure it would survive this season.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/melbourne-rebels-say-rugby-australia-owes-club-8m-as-20m-debt-revealed-including-11m-tax-bill/news-story/bb48d6a498578810adc578e29ff2a4e4?amp

The $2 million PAYG claim is interesting in that if it were proven it would seem to apply to all the super rugby sides. If they've all been paying it themselves that might make it difficult for the Rebels to prove it's on RA, particularly if they haven't raised this with RA previously. Either way that still leaves $9.5m in unpaid taxes (over $10m with the debt to the Sate Revenue Office).

On the $6 million in under funding, as far as I'm aware all the sides agreed to the reduced grant during the first 2 years of covid, so I'm not sure how they could claim RA are required to provide the first ~4 million of that, I would've thought only the recent grant increase they reneged on could really be contested. Again any claim they won here would seem to apply to all the super sides and could effectively bankrupt RA as a result, which wouldn't do much to save the Rebels.

Even if the Rebels were somehow able to prove out all the claims without them applying to the other Australian super sides they've made it doesn't cover half their debts and would suck RA dry, the one organisation with any real vested interest in keeping them going. I struggle to see how any of this is about the survival of the club, as much as it is about making sure the board are not saddled with tax debt and are paid out as creditors.

 

[Braveheart81]

The $2 million PAYG claim is interesting in that if it were proven it would seem to apply to all the super rugby sides. If they've all been paying it themselves that might make it difficult for the Rebels to prove it's on RA, particularly if they haven't raised this with RA previously. Either way that still leaves $9.5m in unpaid taxes (over $10m with the debt to the Sate Revenue Office).

This seems like a complete red herring to me.

Super Rugby contracts are paid across the year. The fact that some of it is paid while players are on Wallabies duty or during the offseason should be irrelevant. It's not like they're arguing that the net player wages for those periods shouldn't have been paid by the Rebels to the players.

 

[Rebel man]

This seems like a complete red herring to me.

Super Rugby contracts are paid across the year. The fact that some of it is paid while players are on Wallabies duty or during the offseason should be irrelevant. It's not like they're arguing that the net player wages for those periods shouldn't have been paid by the Rebels to the players.

Those party to the contracts would probably have a better idea than fans on a forum

 

[Wilson]

This seems like a complete red herring to me.

Super Rugby contracts are paid across the year. The fact that some of it is paid while players are on Wallabies duty or during the offseason should be irrelevant. It's not like they're arguing that the net player wages for those periods shouldn't have been paid by the Rebels to the players.

Yeah, the only way I could see it being the case is if it was specifically related to match payments and any other payments specifically related to selection, not top ups and standard contracts. But that would still depend on how those payments were paid and I find it seems very unlikely the tax wasn't already being paid on those.

 

[Rebelsfan]

All that is probably true, but for those Rebels directors - overseeing $20m of debt over just 5 years, and losing your own house to the ATO seems a pretty spectacular way of proving it to RA....

As Board members they were tasked with holding their ceo accountable - instead they let him spend money that wasn’t there to spend , without generating sufficient alternative revenues to keep the operation financially sustainable . Dare I say that Stephenson has shown to be incompetent and his board were asleep in their corporate box suite. The board included a forensic accountant , a couple of self made business men , a business woman, and a KC and still didn’t have the wits to keep it together. Shame on all of them

 

[RugbyReg]

Newstar owed money? You have to find the positive in everything.

 

[Rebelsfan]

The Australian also mentions $250000 of unpaid superannuation - now that’s very bad - according to the ato failure to pay can result in significant fines and possible imprisonment for company directors !!!!

 

[Tex]

Well, I for one have some fond memories of the Melbourne Rebels.....

I will say this. O'Connor had rejoined the line having popped his sternum just before Ranger splattered him.

 

[Tazzmania]

Sadly talking of homes it appears that according to AFR a $50,000 donation to homelessness charity Mobilise was never paid in cash. Instead, the Rebels are looking at other ways to support Mobilise.

 

[Rebelsfan]

Sadly talking of homes it appears that according to AFR a $50,000 donation to homelessness charity Mobilise was never paid in cash. Instead, the Rebels are looking at other ways to support Mobilise.

I can’t think how the rebels ever thought they were in a position to pay money to another entity. It isn’t part of their charter

 

[stoff]

As Board members they were tasked with holding their ceo accountable - instead they let him spend money that wasn’t there to spend , without generating sufficient alternative revenues to keep the operation financially sustainable . Dare I say that Stephenson has shown to be incompetent and his board were asleep in their corporate box suite. The board included a forensic accountant , a couple of self made business men , a business woman, and a KC and still didn’t have the wits to keep it together. Shame on all of them

The related party loans suggests that the directors have tipped in the best part of $6m to keep the place going “The Chairperson also noted that the directors, and entities/people associated with the directors, have advanced $5.7m to the Company to support the club,”.

On the tax front I imagine a significant proportion of that must have been on a payment plan (and who knows what arrangements they had with other suppliers, especially during the pandemic). There is a difference between being in debt and being unable to service a debt. It looks like in the absence of the reinstatement of funding by RA the directors decided they couldn't afford to keep funding the club.

How about an alternative narrative where an experienced board did everything they could to keep the club afloat, but due to events outside their control, including funding cuts from the national body, increased cost of debt funding, and the failure by RA to convert its long-held PE strategy to provide additional funds meant they were unable to service their debt and had to go into VA.

 

[Rebelsfan]

The related party loans suggests that the directors have tipped in the best part of $6m to keep the place going “The Chairperson also noted that the directors, and entities/people associated with the directors, have advanced $5.7m to the Company to support the club,”.

On the tax front I imagine a significant proportion of that must have been on a payment plan (and who knows what arrangements they had with other suppliers, especially during the pandemic). There is a difference between being in debt and being unable to service a debt. It looks like in the absence of the reinstatement of funding by RA the directors decided they couldn't afford to keep funding the club.

How about an alternative narrative where an experienced board did everything they could to keep the club afloat, but due to events outside their control, including funding cuts from the national body, increased cost of debt funding, and the failure by RA to convert its long-held PE strategy to provide additional funds meant they were unable to service their debt and had to go into VA.

Yeah nah