New Zealand v Australia - Auckland - 23 August 2014

[KOB1987]

and I do agree with the point of view on here that whilst the inside backs aren't blameless the bigger issue is the forwards - 4, 5 & 6 in particular. Palu had a shocker last night but he has been good otherwise so can be excused one bad game for now.

 

[Jeeper]

Always have been a fan of Izzy in outside centre. Get his hands on the ball more often. His best position in league was centre. His positioning at fullback is pretty terrible.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

as an aside, I was talking to a good friend of mine who played 1st grade 10/12/15 in the mid to late 90's and has coached Country rep sides more recently..I'm not suggesting his view is rugby gospel but I do value his opinion..

He thinks both the Wallabies and Tahs should play Folau at 13 and Beale at 15..

Folau at the back makes people think twice about when & how deep to kick, he's arguably the best kick receiver/ returner in the game right now so moving him into the midfield makes zero sense, even if KB (Kurtley Beale) weren't shite under the high ball as evidenced yet again last night. But, hey, if you wanna do it then go for it, clearly you'll be needing to move AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) out to the wing while you're at it & why not Hooper to hooker since you're a bit short there?

 

[TahDan]

I don't think 'cattle' is the real problem though it's always an entertaining discussion from the couch.
The same 'cattle' have had a great Super season against kiwi teams and not for the first time.
IMHO, it's team mentality when compared to the AB's.
Their individuals just flat out seem to have more pride and fight harder for the team.
Saturday night the AB's cattle were a stampede and we were a dairy.

Is it possible to change the team mentality of the Wallabies ?

I definitely agree with that. I still think the inexperienced nature of the pack hurt us, but if we're ever going to win at a cauldron like Eden park, our boys need not only to be trained well and have a good tactical and defence prep, but also need to play like their lives depended on it.

As I've said a couple times here, the wallabies need to watch game 1 of Origin again. The Blues had a tonne of calls go against them, but they played the house down and delivered such an incredible level of passion and intensity, that even their more talented opponents couldn't deny them in their own backyard.

The number of injuries out of that match was pretty nuts, but that's how the Wallabies need to approach the All Blacks. And dare I say it, they also need to learn to hate them... And passionately.

 

[tragic]

It’s funny when you watch games when you’re team gets blown off the park like that. I almost don’t feel bad; we were just never in it, so the prevailing sensation is a sort of cold detachment.

But in games like last night, the sensation is more akin to being at the site of a large crash to conduct an insurance assessment; it’s horrible, but I don’t really feel anything.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
It was such a dominant display by the ABs that once you gave up any chance of winning, it was almost a pleasure to watch - in a perverse sort of way.
It also meant the couple of errors by poite raised nothing more than a wry smile rather than some all consuming angst and a steaming torrent of filth directed at the TV.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Fair call, and the Kiwis are generally more competitive these days. But all the same, their relationship with the Kangaroos is almost a mirror image of the Wallabies relationship to the All Blacks.

In fact that game last night reminded me an awful lot of last years RLWC Final; like the Kangaroos in that game, the All Blacks looked like they had a point to prove.

So to a certain extent the player numbers even out a bit, but the success of the national team does still seem related at some level to the place the game holds in each country.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I love my league and am a big Warriors supporter, and one of the huge advantages OZ has over NZ is the big game experience. The Kangaroos are by and large made up of experienced Origin players. Sure we can pull one out of the bag in a blue moon, but unless our boys are in teams that are playing in Grand finals or semi finals every year, there is nothing we can do to replicate the intensity of the big game that OZ players have three times a year, every year.

This is of course a mental thing, one of the intangibles that when the cards are stacked against OZ often can call on. Look at the last test we played and all the commentators can talk about with NZ is that RLWC win from years ago. Nothing is said about the Kangaroo players because test league is almost a step down in intensity from an Origin series.

 

[Viking]

Always have been a fan of Izzy in outside centre. Get his hands on the ball more often. His best position in league was centre. His positioning at fullback is pretty terrible.

Moving Falou to 13 is crazy talk. 13 we already have 2 good options in AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Kuridrani.

Having Falou at fullback means the AB's think twice before kicking it to him. Have you not noticed they will never kick it to Izzy on the full! As soon as Beale or To'omua drop back they kick it straight to them. Or they will put in a chip kick and make Izzy run onto it. I don't think Izzy's positioning is poor, I think its more good tactics from the AB's.

 

[KOB1987]

the one thing that the All Blacks have is self belief..many would have seen Jonah talking about it the other night.

You can put a team together that on paper might look inferior to the opposition but because they are wearing that black jersey they just fucking lift

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Just saw this on Brisbane times.com.au & thought it a pretty good summing up of where Oz rugby is at right now:

"Australian Rugby Supporters,
Tired of crying into your beers? Frustrated by decades of losses at the hands of the best team in the world and some others? Buoyed by 12-all draws and then absolutely gutted by a 51-20 thrashing? Disillusioned by optimistic media talk of a victory somewhere, somehow in the future? Heckled by ex pat N-Zedders to within an inch of your legal responsibilities?
You're still reading.. so you care - you're interested. Lets walk deeper into the hall of mirrors...
If you really care and want to see things change build rugby here from the grass roots. Join your local club, register your sons and daughters to play and love the game, man the BBQ's, make your local rugby club part of the fabric of the community - as it is in NZ and once was in Wales. Once we have a strong culture of rugby then we will be a chance to win and win regularly because the greater the number of players the better chance we have at attaining a higher level of skill and success at the summit of the game.
So, stop your whingeing, find your local rugby club and ask them what yo can do to help the wallabies beat the AB's - you've got a job to do.
Commenter
Number 6
Location
Sydney
Date and time
August 24, 2014, 11:03AM


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...p-massacre-20140823-107oqg.html#ixzz3BIGnzDY5

 

[KOB1987]

there are always going to plenty of arguments for and against a proposed change..

in the Folau at 13 case, the arguments for are more related to the other options in that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) hasn't been exceptional there for the Wobs ( he was for the Tahs) and that although Kuridrani is a hard runner he isn't a very dynamic player..add to that as pointed out IF was a great centre whilst playing there in NRL..

the arguments against are centred around him not being at fullback, which is a different argument..

 

[Bullrush]

Watching that game last night and then reading the comments here, I feel like nothing has really changed since I first starting coming here 3 or 4 years ago.

I have no idea what it is but there just doesn't seem to be any old-fashioned hard-man edge to the Wallaby pack. Forget Palu....I've pointed out numerous times here that he is simply ineffective against the Boks and the ABs at Test level. Go back the last few years and see what you guys yourselves have rated him. Nothing really better than average. That's why I also think Pocock is such a massive loss for you guys despite how well Hooper goes. Pocock is physically intimidating. He can hurt you. He can beat in the tackle, get to his feet and then beat 2 or 3 guys trying to clean him out to win a turn-over or penalty. He relishes the physical confrontation and battle and he backs himself to win it. He doesn't need to 'get it up for it' or mentally psyche himself up for it - that's just how he plays rugby. It's not a big deal to him, it's just what he is supposed to do. It's that attitude (and ability to back it up) that you see in guys like Kaino, Rettalick, Poitger and Bismark DuPlessis. I thought Fardy had it but I'm not sure. I haven't watched enough of him to be honest. It's what I like about Stephen Moore - running hard and getting hit hard is nothing to be worried about or to shy away from, that's why he plays the game. He'll just get up and do it again.

I obviously can't speak for the ABs themselves but as a fan, there's not 1 forward in that pack last night that puts any kind of doubt or fear in my mind about what they will do to us.

Here's what I would do if I ran any kind of rugby club in Australia. Hire someone like Brad Thorn or see what Jerry Collins or even Owen Finnegan or someone like that is up to and get them to start scouting club level rugby for hard-arse mutha fuckers who want to lay the smack down. Go and start poaching them from league if you have to cos Aussie forwards in the other code have some tough, don't-fuck-around men running around. Guys who don't look for glory or care about scoring tries or anything else other than running over and hurting people. Crunching them. Get them in rugby and get all your forwards running up against them and with them and around them all the time till that starts to rub off on them as well.

I predicted this outcome before the game if anyone remembers....even right down to Folau scoring in the last 20min - I don't know about giving you guys hope though.

 

[Viking]

there are always going to plenty of arguments for and against a proposed change..

in the Folau at 13 case, the arguments for are more related to the other options in that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) hasn't been exceptional there for the Wobs ( he was for the Tahs) and that although Kuridrani is a hard runner he isn't a very dynamic player..add to that as pointed out IF was a great centre whilst playing there in NRL..

the arguments against are centred around him not being at fullback, which is a different argument..

Number 13 is by far the least worry position at the moment. The reason we lost had nothing to do with the 13.
In the backline the halves are a problem. The back-3 can be better - but theirs injuries in that department.
The whole forward pack apart from Hooper and Slipper is a mess.
13 is fine.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

there are always going to plenty of arguments for and against a proposed change..

in the Folau at 13 case, the arguments for are more related to the other options in that AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) hasn't been exceptional there for the Wobs ( he was for the Tahs) and that although Kuridrani is a hard runner he isn't a very dynamic player..add to that as pointed out IF was a great centre whilst playing there in NRL..

the arguments against are centred around him not being at fullback, which is a different argument..

Pretty sure I'm not the only AB supporter who much prefers to see AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 14 than 13 & of the view that given an extended run at 13 he'd be at least top-3 in the world there. Similarly, as an AB supporter I'd love to see Folau at 13 & Beale at 15 but seriously, if Deans were still running your show & did that he'd be crucified & rightly so, probably get labelled as NZRU plant into the bargain.

Changing your backs around is deck chairs on the Titanic material, problem is that your forwards play like they're 10-15 kg lighter than they are (except Hooper & Moore who can come play for us any time they like).

EDIT: starting to think that maybe Slipper could make our bench given enough injuries.

 

[tragic]

Just saw this on Brisbane times.com.au & thought it a pretty good summing up of where Oz rugby is at right now:

"Australian Rugby Supporters,
Tired of crying into your beers? Frustrated by decades of losses at the hands of the best team in the world and some others? Buoyed by 12-all draws and then absolutely gutted by a 51-20 thrashing? Disillusioned by optimistic media talk of a victory somewhere, somehow in the future? Heckled by ex pat N-Zedders to within an inch of your legal responsibilities?
You're still reading.. so you care - you're interested. Lets walk deeper into the hall of mirrors.
If you really care and want to see things change build rugby here from the grass roots. Join your local club, register your sons and daughters to play and love the game, man the BBQ's, make your local rugby club part of the fabric of the community - as it is in NZ and once was in Wales. Once we have a strong culture of rugby then we will be a chance to win and win regularly because the greater the number of players the better chance we have at attaining a higher level of skill and success at the summit of the game.
So, stop your whingeing, find your local rugby club and ask them what yo can do to help the wallabies beat the AB's - you've got a job to do.
Commenter
Number 6
Location
Sydney
Date and time
August 24, 2014, 11:03AM


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...p-massacre-20140823-107oqg.html#ixzz3BIGnzDY5

Problem is 90% of Australians are not rugby supporters and wouldn't have got past the first line.
Those that continue to read (and those on this forum) are already doing what is suggested.
The real issue is how to make the game more appealing to the masses against a number of rival codes whose games are better marketed and are televised FTA.

 

[barbarian]

Barb, about time I think for you, and others, to concede that KB (Kurtley Beale) is not a starting 10 for the Wallabies. Despite the shortcoming elsewhere, and there were many, it is his inability to tackle and therefore the need to try to hide him in defense that weakens the whole team effort. The ABs were able last night to find him at will and target their attack accordingly.

In return, I will concede that Nic White should be replaced by Phipps for the next test. Time to see if it will make a difference if the pack is under pressure.

Otherwise, last night Cliff was almost invisible. Higgers was more effective when he came on, admittedly at the end when the ABs had most of their replacements on the field (but isn't that also the time Phipps comes on?). Rob Simmons reverted to his more common ineffectual self. I would like to see Horwill come back at Simmons' expense. Any Reds fan will tell us that Kev can call the lineouts second only to Rob.

AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) back to the wing and Kuridrani to 13. This works best with the present cattle and shouldn't have been changed around by Link.

Wallabies will still be able to match it against the Saffas and Argies imo but only if the pack can play with a bit more authority (which I think they can) and we go back to a better structured backline that has the runs on the board from the EOYT and French tests. Henry will make a difference when he is eligible but isn't the messiah. Won't win matches by himself but will allow improved structures to be put in place in the backline.

Agree with all that, except dropping Palu.

There needs to be a bit of perspective here, and we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Palu has been great all year, and had one off night (where he still comfortably topped the tackle count).

While Higgers looked good off the bench it's the first time he has done that all year. Will want to see it again before I put him in the starting line-up.
.

 

[KOB1987]

Pretty sure I'm not the only AB supporter who much prefers to see AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at 14 than 13 & of the view that given an extended run at 13 he'd be at least top-3 in the world there. Similarly, as an AB supporter I'd love to see Folau at 13 & Beale at 15 but seriously, if Deans were still running your show & did that he'd be crucified & rightly so, probably get labelled as NZRU plant into the bargain.

Changing your backs around is deck chairs on the Titanic material, problem is that your forwards play like they're 10-15 kg lighter than they are (except Hooper & Moore who can come play for us any time they like).

I don't dispute this, however it's an interesting proposition but probably one for the future..

 

[KOB1987]

While Higgers looked good off the bench it's the first time he has done that all year. Will want to see it again before I put him in the starting line-up.
.

I think the argument to start him is more to do with Fardy being a non-event of late..

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Problem is 90% of Australians are not rugby supporters and wouldn't have got past the first line.
Those that continue to read (and those on this forum) are already doing what is suggested.
The real issue is how to make the game more appealing to the masses against a number of rival codes whose games are better marketed and are televised FTA.

True, but you've gotta start somewhere & believe you can get to where you wanna be. Remember also you're ranked 2 or 3 in the world, have won 2 World Cups so it's not like you've suddenly become the Scotland of the South.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I don't dispute this, however it's an interesting proposition but probably one for the future..

So far in the future that we never see it ideally.

 

[KOB1987]

Number 13 is by far the least worry position at the moment. The reason we lost had nothing to do with the 13.
In the backline the halves are a problem. The back-3 can be better - but theirs injuries in that department.
The whole forward pack apart from Hooper and Slipper is a mess.
13 is fine.

I do agree