New Zealand v Australia - Auckland - 23 August 2014
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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Redsman
Allen Oxlade (6)
OK - Ive gotten over the loss now and accept it was entirely the refs fault...
But brings me to another bugbear and that is the ARU's refusal to use overseas players.
We need the best players on the field if aussies are ever going to compete with the best....
We certainly don't have enough depth in this country with out - just consider Douglas in 2nd row, Mowen no 8 (maybe), Ioane on one wing, every drew Mitchell on the other...??
You could even consider Giteau & Bieber...
the point is its unfortunately going to keep on being groundhog day till the best players we got can all be used...
Seriously Horne and McCabe at wing??
I rate Link immensely but idiot policies @ ARU are hamstringing the bloke.
But brings me to another bugbear and that is the ARU's refusal to use overseas players.
We need the best players on the field if aussies are ever going to compete with the best....
We certainly don't have enough depth in this country with out - just consider Douglas in 2nd row, Mowen no 8 (maybe), Ioane on one wing, every drew Mitchell on the other...??
You could even consider Giteau & Bieber...
the point is its unfortunately going to keep on being groundhog day till the best players we got can all be used...
Seriously Horne and McCabe at wing??
I rate Link immensely but idiot policies @ ARU are hamstringing the bloke.
Kane Douglas would be a good chance of being in the Wallaby squad this year but I doubt he'd have been picked for this test. Carter, Simmons and Skelton have done well this year up until Saturday night.
Mowen would be lucky to be in the squad as a number 8 even if he was staying. He was there last year because of injuries. He wouldn't have been picked ahead of Palu and it's arguable whether he'd have been ahead of Higgers or McCalman.
Ioane is crocked and is a spent force. There have been articles recently labelling him a terrible foreign recruit in French rugby because he is nowhere near his previous best.
Mitchell, Giteau and now JOC (James O'Connor) do look good in France but it is so hard to tell where they sit. The French team came out here and were pretty poor. It doesn't really inspire you with confidence that good players in the top 14 are necessarily that great. Super Rugby is clearly stronger.
The ARU policies aren't holding anyone back. All of the foreign selection options are marginal at best.
Mowen would be lucky to be in the squad as a number 8 even if he was staying. He was there last year because of injuries. He wouldn't have been picked ahead of Palu and it's arguable whether he'd have been ahead of Higgers or McCalman.
Ioane is crocked and is a spent force. There have been articles recently labelling him a terrible foreign recruit in French rugby because he is nowhere near his previous best.
Mitchell, Giteau and now JOC (James O'Connor) do look good in France but it is so hard to tell where they sit. The French team came out here and were pretty poor. It doesn't really inspire you with confidence that good players in the top 14 are necessarily that great. Super Rugby is clearly stronger.
The ARU policies aren't holding anyone back. All of the foreign selection options are marginal at best.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
You're completely wrong on this.
Yes potentially allowing some O/S based players would help. But let's just be serious here.
Giteau? Nope. I don't give a fuck how good they reckon he's playing. Throw him behind a pack going backwards and it'll take us straight back to 2010/2011.
Douglas? Well he's leaving because he was down the pecking order. If we get an injury or two I guess he'd be handy.
Ioane and Mitchell? Well maybe we could use them on the wing now. But at the same time we were all speculating they were past it when they left so can they still have the same impact on international rugby?
JOC (James O'Connor)? Well he's in exile so that doesn't change the situation.
Mowen? Once again, he left because he saw he'd likely be out of the squad with everybody fit. So maybe if we get a few injuries. Either way he's not in the 32 right now for the right reasons too.
Looking at overseas players is a fucking short sighted view. Yeah it might help you in the odd position. But keep in mind, every player that left by choice would likely not even be in the first choice 23. But then as playing for the Wallabies becomes possible from overseas more players leave because there is more money on offer.
What happens to Super Rugby? Australian teams diminish in quality. With less quality players, the players lefter aren't being pushed by their peers. With the quality in the teams diminishes so does the viewers, so does the money and so do the contracts. Next thing you know there's no money in player Super Rugby so any player worth their salt goes to league and what are we left with then.
Plus also, how good are the NH players playing? How does this compare to SH rugby? Considering Julian Salvi is considered one of the top 7's in the Aviva Premiership, Dean Mumm is captaining the Exeter Chiefs and performing well and Mark Chisholm is playing really well I must question the quality of NH provincial rugby.
Rocky Elsom was great here, dominated the Heineken Cup and came back as an average international loosie.
Potgieter is capped for South Africa. He's not eligible.
I'd argue that Australian rugby features pretty much as many players of Pacific Islander descent as New Zealand. We also have the benefit that we feature a whole lot of players of New Zealand descent as well. There isn't really a lot of poaching going on. It's people migrating for lots of reasons, most of which are due to decisions their parents make looking for opportunity rather than people moving for rugby.
He'd be in the side if he hadn't gone to Japan.
USARugger
John Thornett (49)
We're in a weird spot because of a stack of injuries at wing right now to compliment the guys who have recently gone OS.
It's a minor hiccup caused by bad timing of things that nobody can really control and I don't think it's a symptom of anything greater in our selection policy.
Tomane - Injured
Speight - Ineligible
JOC (James O'Connor) - Overseas
Badger - Overseas
CFS - Injured
Betham is really the only one who is healthy and has been in the picture before but isn't right now.
Badger wouldn't have left if not for the extreme circumstances he is facing, which sort of implies the current incentive is working if he waited as long as he did to chase money.
@Trainwithoutastation
Rocky had some great tests down here (and some very good ones after coming back - he was MOM when we broke the drought in Durban) before playing 3 years on non-stop rugby caught up to him and his body just wasn't up to it anymore.
It's a minor hiccup caused by bad timing of things that nobody can really control and I don't think it's a symptom of anything greater in our selection policy.
Tomane - Injured
Speight - Ineligible
JOC (James O'Connor) - Overseas
Badger - Overseas
CFS - Injured
Betham is really the only one who is healthy and has been in the picture before but isn't right now.
Badger wouldn't have left if not for the extreme circumstances he is facing, which sort of implies the current incentive is working if he waited as long as he did to chase money.
@Trainwithoutastation
Rocky had some great tests down here (and some very good ones after coming back - he was MOM when we broke the drought in Durban) before playing 3 years on non-stop rugby caught up to him and his body just wasn't up to it anymore.
Well, that ship sailed, and has docked elsewhere. If it sails again, maybe Dan Palmer can catch it back?Maybe Link needs another assistant?
You haven't made your point there at all. He left so he could play in Japan and make more money.
If he was playing for the Wallabies he couldn't be playing in Japan. The Badger might be busier than a one-armed bricklayer in Baghdad but he can't be in two places at once.
Yes, we could send scouts over there to recruit these players before they play for Georgia and get them to move here but that would be difficult and expensive and still just bring us players who need a lot of development.
These players generally aren't getting contracts in Europe prior to playing international rugby.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
No with Badger you haven't really. When interviewed he said the money on offer in conjunction with the time off that he would have to help his family was a huge factor.
Playing 13 tests a year and being involved in training camps, etc. dramatically reduces that.
Being unavailable to play test rugby also reduces his value to his Japanese team, which affects the first part.
Playing 13 tests a year and being involved in training camps, etc. dramatically reduces that.
Being unavailable to play test rugby also reduces his value to his Japanese team, which affects the first part.
Richo
John Thornett (49)
Iain Payten has a good take on the difference in mentality between the two teams.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
I think he finished pretty the season well. So it's hard to say he would be down the pecking order. He could have easily been first choice.
Personally I think what we lacked, physicality, winning the collision, generally missing guys who are great in contact.
A pack of with Douglas, TPN, Potgeiter sure sounds a lot better in contact then Fardy, Carter and Hanson.
As poor as Dean's selection were I'm sure the inclusion of Timani was evidence of our lack of impact in the contact zone. I'm not saying Douglas is the answer but we sure as hell need players who have the ability to step up in that area.
TPN, Moore are sorely missed.
Our locks are a big let-down, A firing Douglas would have been handy, or Horwill needs to find form.
Hard running 6's or 8's are lacking too. Palu needs to step up.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Has Douglas performed with any consistency though. He's shown great potential since his debut littered with ineffectiveness. It would not be a surprise for him to fail to translate that good form at the end of the year to test form, as he has struggled to do that previously.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Richo. I contemplating stopping reading here:
And stopped here:
That's complete crap to paint it as some form of complacency from the Wallabies. One team has something like a 90% winning record over the other which had stretched to something like 5 tests. How is it a difference in mentality between Australia and New Zealand that the team which is far ahead is disappointed to draw with a team which has a poor record against them, and a team with a poor record against an opponent feeling somewhat heartened by their closing of the gap?
If we'd been spanking the All Blacks with regularity for more than a decade I guarantee they'd be positive about a draw as it feels like they're getting closer to where they need to be also.
Viking
Mark Ella (57)
I agree with you here. But at least he has shown glimpses of whats needed. Much like Higgers. Whereas Carter and Simmons whilst good workers simply look out of their depth.
If Douglas was in the squad there's a chance he'd get a look in against South Africa.
As it stands though, Carter and Simmons were fairly selected for the first Bledisloe and based on that they would have been selected for the second Bledisloe.
You can regret your selection decision in hindsight, but you can't change it!
As it stands though, Carter and Simmons were fairly selected for the first Bledisloe and based on that they would have been selected for the second Bledisloe.
You can regret your selection decision in hindsight, but you can't change it!
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