NRC Expansion

[WorkingClassRugger]

This guy knows what's up.

At this point (and not knowing or caring about the Sydney political ramifications) I'd probably merge North Harbour and Stars to create a single North/East Sydney team. That gets us to eight and a pretty even spread of talent.

I'd love Adelaide to get a team, but I'd hesitate to have a mercenary-type team a la the ARC Rebels. That served a purpose back in 2007, as it ensured high-quality rugby for a community still smarting from losing a Super licence.

Now, the difference with the NRC is that all the Rising (regardless of their origin) are local club representatives. It serves as both an outlet for high-quality rugby, and a developmental pathway for local players.

If we were to go to Adelaide, we would need to ensure that the 'mercenaries' were visible in SA (ie played for local teams some of the year) and that local players made up a portion of the squad. It all depends on the gap between SA Rugby and the rest of the country.

Regarding Adelaide. I think the bye weeks for NRC teams should be utilised more by the ARU and SARU to test the viability of a Black Falcons squad entering the NRC in the coming years. It wouldn't need to be every week but say 4 games to gage what needs to be addressed to ensure that they will be competitive as to be honest they will in all likelihood need to be a near exclusively local based team. Not that that would be a bad thing.

I actually think we may be aaa little surprised. In the Junior Gold Cup their 15s and 17s age groups proved competitive.

 

[Train Without a Station]

This guy knows what's up.

At this point (and not knowing or caring about the Sydney political ramifications) I'd probably merge North Harbour and Stars to create a single North/East Sydney team. That gets us to eight and a pretty even spread of talent.

I'd love Adelaide to get a team, but I'd hesitate to have a mercenary-type team a la the ARC Rebels. That served a purpose back in 2007, as it ensured high-quality rugby for a community still smarting from losing a Super licence.

Now, the difference with the NRC is that all the Rising (regardless of their origin) are local club representatives. It serves as both an outlet for high-quality rugby, and a developmental pathway for local players.

If we were to go to Adelaide, we would need to ensure that the 'mercenaries' were visible in SA (ie played for local teams some of the year) and that local players made up a portion of the squad. It all depends on the gap between SA Rugby and the rest of the country.

Are we on SA again? Come off it.

It's a small market and has such a small rugby presence. I doubt the Black Falcons would even test most Dewar Shield teams.

Then there's the fact that no professional rugby players live in Adelaide. Until they can bring in more money than every other team in order to cover the accommodation for up to 16 players in a standard that men earning six figures would be used to on top of running a team they aren't even an option. Plus then there's the fact they don't have the quality to add to those players in the squad.

Maybe when South Australia have a Super Rugby team they will be able to have an NRC team.

Also if Sydney teams were to consolidate it wouldn't be the Rays with anybody else. They are geographically isolated from the other teams and already an amalgamation of the 4 other teams. If anything the stars would maybe be an option to merge with the country/easts/wicks consortium. But that was full of political issues.

 

[Jagman]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and speculate that the NRC will eventually expand to 11 teams including Adelaide and Randwick into the competition. Now I'm not advocating this just expecting. Why?
Firstly they're the only clubs/locations I've heard of with a motive to be included. I assume they made up the original 11 teams that submitted interest in the first place.

I didn't think Adelaide would ever work but the. Black Falcons and the ARU have been pretty keen on the idea so if Adelaide can afford all the extra cost let them try.


Randwick already tried to have their own team but the financials apparently didn't fly. There are pros for them though. They have left their mark on the Aus sporting landscape like no other rugby club. League fans who remember he 80s remember them and their famous style.
There is no other team in Eastern Suburbs a rugby heartland. Surely that is not optimal.
They have been quietly stockpiling a host of young talent. Sure they weren't great in the SS but they won 1st colts and many of their 1st grade are still colts age. In a year or two this might translate into them being competitive enough for the NRC.


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[kiap]

Regarding Adelaide. I think the bye weeks for NRC teams should be utilised more by the ARU and SARU to test the viability of a Black Falcons squad entering the NRC in the coming years. It wouldn't need to be every week but say 4 games to gage what needs to be addressed to ensure that they will be competitive as to be honest they will in all likelihood need to be a near exclusively local based team. Not that that would be a bad thing.

Good idea. Qld Country could have done with some sort of tune-up match over the last weekend. They'll be going in cold this weekend against their rivals NSW Country, who look like the gun team of this NRC comp.

Adelaide (or Townsville) — assuming they had a sponsor/benefactor to pick up the tab, and I'm not sure if that's possible in the first 3 years or so — could eventually have a 12 month lead-in to assemble and develop a squad to enter the NRC.

The problem is they would still need to recruit and relocate some players to supplement their best local prospects, and that will cost dollars. But some bye matches with existing NRC teams and followed up by a stint in the Pacific Rugby Cup development comp, say, could help them get somewhat up to speed.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Good idea. Qld Country could have done with some sort of tune-up match over the last weekend. They'll be going in cold this weekend against their rivals NSW Country, who look like the gun team of this NRC comp.

Adelaide (or Townsville) — assuming they had a sponsor/benefactor to pick up the tab, and I'm not sure if that's possible in the first 3 years or so — could eventually have a 12 month lead-in to assemble and develop a squad to enter the NRC.

The problem is they would still need to recruit and relocate some players to supplement their best local prospects, and that will cost dollars. But some bye matches with existing NRC teams and followed up by a stint in the Pacific Rugby Cup development comp, say, could help them get somewhat up to speed.

That was part of my thinking process. It would allow teams in their bye week the opportunity to maintain cohesion as a group by playing aspiring "provinces". You could even potentially break it down geographically. If a North Queensland group was interested they could play both City and Country, Adelaide could play both Melbourne and Perth in there's and say Newcastle could play the two of the NSW teams while the other three byes could the. Be split among them.

It would take somewhere between 3 to 5 years of solid development playing a bye schedule for them to be even remotely ready for inclusion in the NRC. In fact I think this should be the method employed with any new entity wishing to push for admission.

I base this timeline roughly on the current crop of JGC participants who proved themselves competitive on a national level. With hopefully 3 to 5 years of development in that structure hopefully they will have a small but growing pool of improving talent to supplement any imported talent.

The other thing is I think it will take that long to develop it financially in order to fund their inclusion alongside finding someone with deep enough pockets.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

On the recruitment side of it. Perhaps a somewhat left of centre suggestion. But perhaps an Adelaide team could be the ideal development opportunity for prospective U20s for the next year.

 

[kiap]

I base this timeline roughly on the current crop of JGC participants who proved themselves competitive on a national level.

I think the Junior Gold Cup results, while promising for SA, need to be taken with a grain of salt because the main rugby states are broken down into multiple teams which increases the participation numbers of the program. It's not as if winning a JGC would mean Adelaide is competitive on level with regions like Sydney or Brisbane in terms of having potential semi-pro players.

SA would need to bring in outside players for a decade or so to be able to meaningfully participate in a national comp any time soon. There's no way around it. I'd like to see it happen and it could be done, but it requires funding. Obviously that's the bottom line.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I think the Junior Gold Cup results, while promising for SA, need to be taken with a grain of salt because the main rugby states are broken down into multiple teams which increases the participation numbers of the program. It's not as if winning a JGC would mean Adelaide is competitive on level with regions like Sydney or Brisbane in terms of having potential semi-pro players.

SA would need to bring in outside players for a decade or so to be able to meaningfully participate in a national comp any time soon. There's no way around it. I'd like to see it happen and it could be done, but it requires funding. Obviously that's the bottom line.

It would be more an indicator of development rather than proof of semi pro potential. Though having said that even though the NSW and QLD squads are split up any Adelaide based squad that won the JGC would indicate a fairly comparable talent level as they would have to overcome state team squads in Perth and Melbourne to do so. Squads that year on year are improving rapidly.

I agree with the long term need to import talent.

 

[TOCC]

Adelaide would be nothing but a financial burden on a competition which is already operating on a extremely tight budget.

The NRC needs 4 years of consolidation before any expansion could even be entertained.

 

[kiap]

Adelaide would be nothing but a financial burden

Definitely a financial burden. But for who and why?

Should it proceed, I'd argue the additional cost should not be borne by the competition but by the backers of such a team. We've already said in the posts above that expansion is unlikely to be possible for several years.

But these questions all boil down to one thing: money. If you see money, the answer is nearby.

 

[Train Without a Station]

There is no other team in Eastern Suburbs a rugby heartland. Surely that is not optimal.
They have been quietly stockpiling a host of young talent. Sure they weren't great in the SS but they won 1st colts and many of their 1st grade are still colts age. In a year or two this might translate into them being competitive enough for the NRC.


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Of course there isn't. It's a national competition not a suburban club competition. You realise the whole city of Brisbane only has 1 team right?

Sydney needs more teams like I need a fucking hole on the head.

Expansion is meant to grow new markets. Not fracture existing ones.

 

[Dave Beat]

Of course there isn't. It's a national competition not a suburban club competition. You realise the whole city of Brisbane only has 1 team right?

Sydney needs more teams like I need a fucking hole on the head.

Expansion is meant to grow new markets. Not fracture existing ones.

Train comments like this really give me the shits.

You have made no reference to NSW & QLD nursery providing the majority of players that started the Melb, WA, and ACT Super teams. The clubs in NSW & QLD are the grass roots of Australian Rugby - to dam right they should be looked after and managed.

Manly average gate was larger than what the Rising could deliver on the weekend - so yeah Grass Roots club rugby is strong.

You have this great vision

Expansion is meant to grow new markets. Not fracture existing ones.

but look back at the ARC - yeah that grew new markets and had cash behind it not the grass roots (NSW & QLD club rugby) and shit that expansion did well.

I'll stand by what I've said - get an an U21 team involved, invest in your grass roots - Rays have and they'll be playing the curtain raiser to each of our home games.

Unfortunately no rugby - http://www.footycoloursday.com.au/

 

[Train Without a Station]

Dave,

My point is expansion should attract new fans. Not divide existing fans across two teams instead of one.

Sydney right now has greater than one third (I'm considering NSW Country half a team) of the entire competition.

So despite Sydney providing a similar amount of talent, and their Super Rugby team getting less attendance than the QLD Reds, they need 3 times as many teams as Brisbane?

I think 3 is the right split. It is a large geographical area after all, so if you missed regions you would potentially lose fans.

You're mob up North are a well organised and defined unit. Perfectly suited to having your own team due to geographical isolation.

Between that then there's the West and South areas covered with the Rams, the Stars covering Central / Inner East and then the presence of NSW Country in the East based out of Randwick and Easts.

How many people come to Randwick SS games? Because that's who a Randwick NRC team would be catering for. If you say the current situation turns away Randwick fans, you cannot say the Wicks going alone would attract any more. Would just turn off the non-Randwick supporters who turned out on the weekend.

 

[Dave Beat]

How many people come to Randwick SS games? Because that's who a Randwick NRC team would be catering for. If you say the current situation turns away Randwick fans, you cannot say the Wicks going alone would attract any more. Would just turn off the non-Randwick supporters who turned out on the weekend.

Your post didn't isolate Randwick - Ive debated long and hard with @Macca that Randwick should not stand alone. I had read above reference to Sth Australia and had thought you were promoting them as the "new Market" given the flow of posts.

I've always been an advocate of Nth / Sth / West - 3 teams but Uni throws a spanner in the works - if you include them and woods in the West other grass roots clubs wouldn't be represented - unlike you I think this should be about developing grass roots and exposing them to a higher level.

Train it appears you have a common thought that Rebels should be able to field the Super team - players that are selected from around the country (& some from NZ).

 

[Train Without a Station]

Dave, it's not that. I think every team should be fielding a team like the Rising and the Spirit. Otherwise it dilutes the competition far too much. Considering Sydney were unable to settle on anything less than up to 4 teams, I have no sympathy for the spread of talent being at their expense.

The QLD teams have managed to have 2 teams which look strong based on not needing any new talent (Barring one suspected new recruit). If NSW teams want more, let it be at their expense, not everybody else's.

I understand that the Rays and Rams have done well in amalgamating the interests of a large number of teams and it isn't really their fault, but you're always going to be at the mercy of the poor decisions of others within your own union.

Oh and I'm fucking strongly against any move to SA. I'm just saying expansion should be done to develop new markets. But also go back a couple of comments and I list why SA should not have a team any time soon. I'd opt for contraction before expansion also.

 

[Jets]

The only positive I could see from Randwick having a team is that they wouldn't have a yellow/gold kit.

 

[GunnerDownUnder]

There are two approaches to rugby, club and franchise/district.
Seeing as Australia is grouped with South Africa and New Zealand the obvious is to go with the same as them.
Currie cup and ITM cup both follow the franchise/district option and have 14 teams each. Seems to work for them, so Australia should aim to match that.
Be it two leagues of 7 or 8 and 6. I like the two leagues of 7 and inter-league play that the ITM cup has. I also love the RS! But no need for that here.

Growing to 14 teams can take as long as it needs but the Falcons, another QLD side, Eastern Sydney, another VIC side and a Shire/Illawarra/Southern Country side would be my choices.

Its a very tough process, I was involved in the same thing in Scotland and my club died a painful death, but areas need to be given the chance to succeed and if they fail the rest will still survive and be all the better for it.

 

[Pfitzy]

The Premiership/Championship model with promotion and relegation is a good one when we're talking about the length of competition. In fact it has probably made the ITM Cup a better spectacle, as the prospect of beating a "Premier" team is a big selling point for the little guys.

As for the people banging on about "Tradition" and that bullshit: Tasman rugby was founded in 2006 and they're fucking guns.

So stick that up your arse, Roar critics.

 

[Highlander35]

In the immediate future, if Randwick want to blaze on alone, they should be able to.

Otherwise, holding off for a few years (about 5+) then adding a couple more (say a 3rd Queensland and potentially an Adelaide or Newcastle side, assuming a sugar daddy can be found). Would be my thought process.

 

[Train Without a Station]

What is Australia's obsessions with expansion. Currie Cup Premier Division contains 8 teams. Why do we need 12?