NRC onwards and upwards

[Eyes and Ears]

It's always dangerous to judge intensity in Round 1 of any competition. The finals matches from last year showed how good this competition can be.


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[WorkingClassRugger]

It is not reflected in the intensity of the matches, there is no passion even for the players which means the quality isn't as high as it is meant to be! Rob Simmons didn't look like he wanted to be there today, if he was playing for his club I doubt that would be the case.

You're kidding right? I've watched 3 and half NRC games this weekend and I can tell you the intensity was a significant jump up from club rugby. Some of the skills were off and that can be somewhat attributed to first game ironing out and combination development. But the overall pace and physicality were significantly higher.

I watch the Shute Shield every week so I think I can make a reasonable assessment.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

It's always dangerous to judge intensity in Round 1 of any competition. The finals matches from last year showed how good this competition can be.


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Yep. But still most of the contact in the games I saw were very physical. There were plenty of really rattling hits in pretty much every game. Hopefully the teams have managed to sort out their cohesion issues this week. I was frustrated at the general handling of the first two games but today's games were quite good. Something I've noticed is the overall defensive stadard was quite good. Even in the Rays/Rams game.

 

[Whitehead]

You're kidding right? I've watched 3 and half NRC games this weekend and I can tell you the intensity was a significant jump up from club rugby. Some of the skills were off and that can be somewhat attributed to first game ironing out and combination development. But the overall pace and physicality were significantly higher.

I watch the Shute Shield every week so I think I can make a reasonable assessment.

Agree to disagree on this one, pace def higher but I would say that might have something to do with the rules that are designed to do that, not sure the same rules help develop all the skills needed to produce quality test players which is a problem!

 

[RugbyReg]

It is not reflected in the intensity of the matches, there is no passion even for the players which means the quality isn't as high as it is meant to be! Rob Simmons didn't look like he wanted to be there today, if he was playing for his club I doubt that would be the case.

I saw a bit of intensity. Did you watch Brisbane City v NSW Country?

Even Perth Spirit v Melbourne Rising.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Agree to disagree on this one, pace def higher but I would say that might have something to do with the rules that are designed to do that, not sure the same rules help develop all the skills needed to produce quality test players which is a problem!

The only real difference is the scoring. Also, are you seriously suggesting a limited club championship which is both lesser standard in pace (which pushes the need to execute under higher pressure situations) and physical intensity would be a better solution?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I saw a bit of intensity. Did you watch Brisbane City v NSW Country?

Even Perth Spirit v Melbourne Rising.

All the games had solid intensity.

 

[Whitehead]

The only real difference is the scoring. Also, are you seriously suggesting a limited club championship which is both lesser standard in pace (which pushes the need to execute under higher pressure situations) and physical intensity would be a better solution?

I would disagree on the physical intensity of NRC over a competitive club game, but yes I am, purely because it would engage fans more. League and afl have a strangle-hold on the winter sporting landscape in this country, does anyone on here think that is because they have a better product? I would argue it is because they have a more passionate fan base. Even in super rugby we don't have that, yet we are trying to get people engaged in another competition and engineer support for it. Passion for a team is not something that can be manufactured. The most passionate supporters we have in this country are for club teams, I think this should be the foundation for getting the fan base more engaged. I love the game and wouldn't miss a club game and get passionate when the wallabies play but might go to one brumbies game a year and there are so many like me at our club that wouldn't of been to a brumbies game for years. Apparently there were 12000 people there on Shute shield grand final day, mostly to supports Norths, would be interesting to know how many of them would get as excited if the Rays made the grand final?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I would disagree on the physical intensity of NRC over a competitive club game, but yes I am, purely because it would engage fans more. League and afl have a strangle-hold on the winter sporting landscape in this country, does anyone on here think that is because they have a better product? I would argue it is because they have a more passionate fan base. Even in super rugby we don't have that, yet we are trying to get people engaged in another competition and engineer support for it. Passion for a team is not something that can be manufactured. The most passionate supporters we have in this country are for club teams, I think this should be the foundation for getting the fan base more engaged. I love the game and wouldn't miss a club game and get passionate when the wallabies play but might go to one brumbies game a year and there are so many like me at our club that wouldn't of been to a brumbies game for years. Apparently there were 12000 people there on Shute shield grand final day, mostly to supports Norths, would be interesting to know how many of them would get as excited if the Rays made the grand final?

The NRC is not even three seasons old. Things take time to build. The 11,500 at the Shute Shield GF was great. But how many of those will be back at Nth Sydney Oval next season? How many did they draw throughout the season? Want an answer. A lot less than were at the Rays game this afternoon. Don't confuse an event to that of the norm.

The club scene may be very different in the ACT competition but the Shute Shield clubs don't represent the majority of Rugby fans or players.

The biggest issue the NRC suffers from is a complete lack of promotion. Outside of G&GR and The Roar, promotion of tge competition is nil.

As for intensity. Anyone of the NRC teams would towel up any one of the competition winning sides from each of the club competitions.

 

[Whitehead]

The NRC is not even three seasons old. Things take time to build. The 11,500 at the Shute Shield GF was great. But how many of those will be back at Nth Sydney Oval next season? How many did they draw throughout the season? Want an answer. A lot less than were at the Rays game this afternoon. Don't confuse an event to that of the norm.

The club scene may be very different in the ACT competition but the Shute Shield clubs don't represent the majority of Rugby fans or players.

The biggest issue the NRC suffers from is a complete lack of promotion. Outside of G&GR and The Roar, promotion of tge competition is nil.

As for intensity. Anyone of the NRC teams would towel up any one of the competition winning sides from each of the club competitions.

No doubt that the grand final is an event and not the norm, but I would be surprised if that many people would turn out if the Rays did make the gf. Who has the money to promote the NRC? Do any of the clubs make a profit? The ARU doesn't have money to promote it. No doubt those teams would beat club teams, that goes without saying but can we afford it with the financial challenges our game faces? How long will it take for it to improve the standard of our super rugby teams, because if that is one of the goals it isn't working so far.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

No doubt that the grand final is an event and not the norm, but I would be surprised if that many people would turn out if the Rays did make the gf. Who has the money to promote the NRC? Do any of the clubs make a profit? The ARU doesn't have money to promote it. No doubt those teams would beat club teams, that goes without saying but can we afford it with the financial challenges our game faces? How long will it take for it to improve the standard of our super rugby teams, because if that is one of the goals it isn't working so far.

They've broken even and outside of the Rays no other team really is club run.

 

[I like to watch]

No doubt that the grand final is an event and not the norm, but I would be surprised if that many people would turn out if the Rays did make the gf. Who has the money to promote the NRC? Do any of the clubs make a profit? The ARU doesn't have money to promote it. No doubt those teams would beat club teams, that goes without saying but can we afford it with the financial challenges our game faces? How long will it take for it to improve the standard of our super rugby teams, because if that is one of the goals it isn't working so far.

It looked like they drew a pretty good crowd today.

You don't create depth overnight.

Deegan,Horwitz & Kellaway are all contracted with the Tahs, do you think they are better off training in a bubble, or playing for country,in assisting their transition into match day squad members?

 

[Whitehead]

It looked like they drew a pretty good crowd today.

You don't create depth overnight.

Deegan,Horwitz & Kellaway are all contracted with the Tahs, do you think they are better off training in a bubble, or playing for country,in assisting their transition into match day squad members?

It hasn't helped the Waratahs the last two seasons, I think they need to be playing but I am not sure the financial cost of this competition is worth it, I can't see this is making our players better and our super rugby and national team better. They can be playing club rugby and I think it will be as much benefit to them.

Please don't get me wrong, I would love to see the NRC succeed, any success our game has is great for all of us rugby fans, especially at the moment in our country. I just can't see how it is going to work financially or help struggling Aussie super rugby teams in a struggling super rugby format.

 

[TOCC]

Why do people keep making this a club rugby versus NRC argument, it isn't one of the other.. The NRC has filled a gap in the season where club rugby and super rugby had finished, sure the QPR and SS shifted their seasons to start and finish a week or two earlier, but the 10 weeks of NRC hasn't replaced 10 weeks of club rugby, it's replaced 10 weeks of off-season where there was no rugby been played besides test rugby.

It's easy to point at the Super Rugby and Wallabies and say "see, the NRC hasn't worked", but that's hardly a controlled experiment is it? How many other variables need to be factored into that equation.. NRC is a long term investment, the benefit will be guys like Samu Kerevi who were developed through the NRC..

 

[Whitehead]

Why do people keep making this a club rugby versus NRC argument, it isn't one of the other.. The NRC has filled a gap in the season where club rugby and super rugby had finished, sure the QPR and SS shifted their seasons to start and finish a week or two earlier, but the 10 weeks of NRC hasn't replaced 10 weeks of club rugby, it's replaced 10 weeks of off-season where there was no rugby been played besides test rugby.

It's easy to point at the Super Rugby and Wallabies and say "see, the NRC hasn't worked", but that's hardly a controlled experiment is it? How many other variables need to be factored into that equation.. NRC is a long term investment, the benefit will be guys like Samu Kerevi who were developed through the NRC..

Club rugby is moved by 4-5 weeks but I get your point, my argument is that any perceived gap should be filled by improving club rugby because you already have a passionate supporter base there and club staff and volunteers that are passionate about their club so costs wouldn't be what the NRC incur. Yes there are variables but you can't tell me we are producing better rugby players because of the NRC, samu did play club rugby as well didn't he? He would be where he is today with or without the NRC.

 

[TOCC]

We can't argue hypotheticals

 

[Highlander35]

As Nige was apt to say, this is not Soccer.

Cup competitions work well in football, where you can expect, that with a bit of luck, a well coordinated and physical side can prevent the opposition from scoring, either at all of more than one, despite being inferior financially, or skillfully or managerially.

A Tasmanian team for example, would likely have the metaphorical snowballs chance of beating say Box Hill, let alone playing Randwick, Sydney Uni or Norths. That contest does sweet fanny adams for anybody, regardless of level.

Then there's alignment issues. Who does Jordy Reid play for, Manly or Melbourne? How about Caydern Neville? How stacked does Sydney Uni get, and suddenly we've got another psuedo Super Side? Or are player points in effect, and some boys who need to be playing rugby are left unable to play?

What of players like Alex Toolis or Billy Meakes? They've come home from playing overseas and have started playing NRC. But in a club competition, who would they play for? Late season signings seem frowned upon at the best of times, let alone for a specific new comp.

If the NRC needs to go, it will go in 2020. A club comp, and particularly a knock out one, is not a suitable substitute. Should SANZAAR go belly up, some sort of National Comp mashing together the Super Sides, NRC sides and Clubs may be the solution, but until then, I think it's the NRC or nothing.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

As Nige was apt to say, this is not Soccer.

Cup competitions work well in football, where you can expect, that with a bit of luck, a well coordinated and physical side can prevent the opposition from scoring, either at all of more than one, despite being inferior financially, or skillfully or managerially.

A Tasmanian team for example, would likely have the metaphorical snowballs chance of beating say Box Hill, let alone playing Randwick, Sydney Uni or Norths. That contest does sweet fanny adams for anybody, regardless of level.

Then there's alignment issues. Who does Jordy Reid play for, Manly or Melbourne? How about Caydern Neville? How stacked does Sydney Uni get, and suddenly we've got another psuedo Super Side? Or are player points in effect, and some boys who need to be playing rugby are left unable to play?

What of players like Alex Toolis or Billy Meakes? They've come home from playing overseas and have started playing NRC. But in a club competition, who would they play for? Late season signings seem frowned upon at the best of times, let alone for a specific new comp.

If the NRC needs to go, it will go in 2020. A club comp, and particularly a knock out one, is not a suitable substitute. Should SANZAAR go belly up, some sort of National Comp mashing together the Super Sides, NRC sides and Clubs may be the solution, but until then, I think it's the NRC or nothing.

Even if SANZAAR were to go tits up I still cannot see club rugby filling the gap. We'd likely sort something out with the Kiwi's or look to really back the NRC by expanding its season.

Though, I seriously doubt Super Rugby is going anywhere.

 

[Dave Beat]

The NRC is not even three seasons old. Things take time to build. The 11,500 at the Shute Shield GF was great. But how many of those will be back at Nth Sydney Oval next season? How many did they draw throughout the season? Want an answer. A lot less than were at the Rays game this afternoon. Don't confuse an event to that of the norm.

The club scene may be very different in the ACT competition but the Shute Shield clubs don't represent the majority of Rugby fans or players.

The biggest issue the NRC suffers from is a complete lack of promotion. Outside of G&GR and The Roar, promotion of the competition is nil.

As for intensity. Anyone of the NRC teams would towel up any one of the competition winning sides from each of the club competitions.

I don't have all morning to read through the posts - I think this one captures my question.

Like you I watched most of the SS, and most grades, i watched live.

What audience is the NRC trying to capture.
Are they looking to promote rugby.
Are they looking for a return.
Is it so players can play a higher level comp and get noticed.

I thought the intensity was there, and it was a great arvo at Nth Sydney oval, but;

I think if we took the average of the SS games that I saw it would have been close to what was at Nth Sydney Oval yesterday, and yesterday was bumped up through the Juniors (6 games = 12 teams and the mums and dads that also attended) that played the curtain raiser games.

Is this through the lack of promotion, and who is responsible for that?
Who pays for game day, ground hire, catering, security, personnel?

I like the purpose of the comp (like the SS more though), it is still young and work should never stop is regards to working on it.

All to many people criticize, but what will make this better, and how?

 

[Whitehead]

As Nige was apt to say, this is not Soccer.

Cup competitions work well in football, where you can expect, that with a bit of luck, a well coordinated and physical side can prevent the opposition from scoring, either at all of more than one, despite being inferior financially, or skillfully or managerially.

A Tasmanian team for example, would likely have the metaphorical snowballs chance of beating say Box Hill, let alone playing Randwick, Sydney Uni or Norths. That contest does sweet fanny adams for anybody, regardless of level.

Then there's alignment issues. Who does Jordy Reid play for, Manly or Melbourne? How about Caydern Neville? How stacked does Sydney Uni get, and suddenly we've got another psuedo Super Side? Or are player points in effect, and some boys who need to be playing rugby are left unable to play?

What of players like Alex Toolis or Billy Meakes? They've come home from playing overseas and have started playing NRC. But in a club competition, who would they play for? Late season signings seem frowned upon at the best of times, let alone for a specific new comp.

If the NRC needs to go, it will go in 2020. A club comp, and particularly a knock out one, is not a suitable substitute. Should SANZAAR go belly up, some sort of National Comp mashing together the Super Sides, NRC sides and Clubs may be the solution, but until then, I think it's the NRC or nothing.

Yeah I thought about who plays for what club, so brumbies players are made to play for a Canberra club during the club rugby season, but once that finishes I would propose that isn't the case and they are free to move back to their original club. Without a doubt a Tasmanian club isn't going to compete, you could have a Tasmanian rep team play in the Melbourne club pool matches, and a new country rep team play in the Sydney club pool, a Wagga rep team in the Canberra pool etc. There would be some lopsided results, all cup competitions have that, maybe you just start with Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra. Some might disagree with Canberra but I'm sure we would Spring a few upsets! I'm just throwing ideas out there to get interest in a competition that the current NRC completely lacks in my opinion, but maybe I'm just kicking stones because of the way the Canberra team is run!