NSW AAGPS 2017

[sidelineview]

To be fair this proposed new comp format affects CAS as well

 

[White line fever]

Sideline and Azzuri,

Whilst we may have different opinions as to what is best, and I think that's ok, everything is debatable, this forum is designed for shared ideas.

Most times I think we all agree, as there is normally a logical clear answer.

This time I think we/the school rugby community do deserve an answer from those who influence any such change.
And there does need to be a logical reason/s if any changes are made.
I think we can agree on that.

Sideline is also correct any such changes do affect both associations.

 

[Rugbybloke123]

I just find it very short sighted that ISA and CHS aren't being mentioned. The sports high schools would be a completely different challenge for the private schools as they are public schools boys who would love to belt the private school boys and show that they are good enough. Secondly ISA is stronger than CAS across the board. For example St Pats who came 5th in ISA lost to Waverley (eventual CAS winners) by 1 try after leading for most of the game and beat Trinity very convincingly. Now if the team that came 5th in ISA can lose by a narrow margin to the team winning CAS, one could only hypothetically assume that Auggies, Oaks, Stannies and Kinross along with Pats would be very competitive across CAS and give it a few years of improvement in this new comp GPS teams on their day. More so the fact that ISA had 7 players in NSW u16s and (correct me if I'm wrong) lost to CHS when they played just demonstrates the talent and ability forgotten about. Many people on this forum talk about expanding and developing rugby however its very interesting that they are fearful of changing rugby from its 'traditional' roots to be more encompassing and improve rugby in Sydney and NSW on a broader scale.

 

[Azzuri]

To be fair this proposed new comp format affects CAS as well

Yes I understand @SLV however the AAGPS house is in fine working order. Maybe CAS should focus on sorting out their issues rather than creating issues for AAGPS.

 

[White line fever]

Rugbybloke,

Couldn't agree more, the idea of including Auggies etc has been floated with a view to creating a grade/comp, prior to each associations normal comp, that would be extremely interesting to watch and I believe would benefit the rugby development of all concerned, others think differently.

 

[Azzuri]

I just find it very short sighted that ISA and CHS aren't being mentioned. The sports high schools would be a completely different challenge for the private schools as they are public schools boys who would love to belt the private school boys and show that they are good enough. Secondly ISA is stronger than CAS across the board. For example St Pats who came 5th in ISA lost to Waverley (eventual CAS winners) by 1 try after leading for most of the game and beat Trinity very convincingly. Now if the team that came 5th in ISA can lose by a narrow margin to the team winning CAS one could only hypothetically assume that Auggies, Oaks, Stannies and Kinross along with Pats would be very competitive across CAS and give it a few years of improvement in this new comp GPS teams on their day.

There is a thread dedicated to CHS and ISA and as we are discussing changes to the AAGPS comp I'm not sure why we'd be specifically mentioning ISA or CHS.

I think any school in the AAGPS would relish a game against any sportshigh because they know the difference between winning games and "belting" their opposition. I'd pay money to watch such a game but I fear you may not like the result.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

the best thing about this thread is that the schools will take no notice of the preference of posters for a 5, 10 or 15 game comp and do what they please

 

[Azzuri]

the best thing about this thread is that the schools will take no notice of the preference of posters for a 5, 10 or 15 game comp and do what they please

that's the sad and ugly truth @IS.

 

[sidelineview]

Yes I understand @SLV however the AAGPS house is in fine working order. Maybe CAS should focus on sorting out their issues rather than creating issues for AAGPS.

Sorry for invading your territory but in this case GPS and CAS have common ground (as well as any other Associations involved) as the proposed changes may/will affect all.

The conversation shifted to this thread but maybe a separate thread should be created for this topic and that will take care of the ''exclusivity'' and ''this is our house'' issues.

I dont think CAS has too many issues; not enough to support any drastic changes anyway.

And its not I or anyone else who is creating issues for AAGPS; it is the proposed changes you have an issue with.

 

[Azzuri]

My final salvo on this for the moment.​

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The proposed changes have been kicked to death in the 2016 GPS thread and I'm sure the CAS thread. Everyone has made their position clear and nothing is going to change the rampant stupidity of the decision which it appears is sadly inevitable.​

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My comments from July this year.........​

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"I don't like the idea at all as I think it will compound the problems we already have.​

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If you combine the two strongest associations to create a super comp wont it just increase the gap between the private system with its amazing resources and the rest who will have to rely on the chicken feed funding from the ARU? ​

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Won't this also push the arms race to new levels. Especially when CAS schools don't have the same scholarship "rules" that the AAGPS has etc etc. This will have the effect of further concentrating talent in the private school system and therefore negatively affect the selections of non private school lads in higher rep squads like AU schoolboys. Bad,bad,bad idea in my books. Bringing CAS and AAGPS together won't do anything for the code at the junior level which is what desperately needs to be fixed.​

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IMO the future of the sport is highly dependant on addressing the issues that are strangling the talent pipeline at junior level and killing any opportunity of creating the broad base, code loyalty and inclusive juniors programs that soccer, five kick and Aerial Ping pong have and are creating."​

Azzuri, Jul 20, 2016

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#2751​

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[Hugh Jarse]

A bad day at the office, or poor performance in the slop, may be all it takes to upset the apple cart in a one lap race.

AAGPS 2017 - Ramping up the pressure. Bring it on. Every game will be a Grand Final.

Wondering how things will be down in the D's, E's, F's and G's (and Opens 5ths and lower). Might get a little tedious for some of those lads.

 

[Footyhead23]

Joeys 2017 1st XV probables
1) Julian Heaven
2) Lincoln Blackhall
3) Fiu Gibson
4) John Yates
5) Sam Abbey
6) Tom Sutherland
7) Paddy Dalton
8) Cody Edstein Boyes
9) Dylan Dowling
10) Kobi Ned
11) Lachie Shortis
12) Jack Quinn
13) Triston Reilly
14) Tyrone Janson
15) Joe Kandalaft

 

[formerflanker]

Specifically, why is there a need for a 2-comp structure similar to the groupings identified by WLF ?

I didn't explain myself clearly. I meant a 5 game comp between similarly matched schools irrespective of association, followed by the traditional GPS comp (of 5 games).
I bring up the ARU as a source of logistical help, and assistance in providing a high profile Shield for a trophy for the first comp.

 

[SonnyDillWilliams]

finally a Joeys probables team!

Is performance of 16As ... two years prior, a good barometer?

Personally I think the next 2 years should be relatively even comp

however the more I think of it 5 game comp, sounds crap.

I like a 10 team supercomp ... however open to all comers ... Auggies would have to be there, and personally would love to see a public school making it

In other news ... a huge loss ... Ross Tarlinton leaving ... big shoes to fill ... will be interested to see who is next.

 

[Dutchy]

Not sure if your interest but there is a good mix of GPS boys that have made the NSW Schoolboys 7s team playing at Central Coast 7s on Friday.

Matt Stead Trinity
Harry Turner Epping Boys H/S
Max Swanenberg St Josephs College
Ben Duckworth Kings
Tom Woodcock Knox
Mike Pavlakis Knox
Dom Easy Riverview
Jake Styles trinity
Matt Dutallis Riverview
Thomas Yasmin Scots
Harry O'leary school?

1 more to be added

With the growth of sevens rugby any chance it could become a summer sport?

 

[White line fever]

1. I do think that the Wallabies team is not so separate to this "junior" level of rugby. This IS one of the major breeding grounds.
2. I do believe that a mixed comp of top schools,regardless of association, will be a benefit for the playing skills of all boys BECAUSE you play schools with different skills and styles.
3. It will always be important that associations are able to conduct their own comps, historically 1 round has been absolutely acceptable,regardless of association.
4. There is clearly a divide between those who want to play the same limited number of teams repeatedly,regardless of association, and people who are happy to see each association comp remain but also include a stronger comp.
5. It would be interesting to see how things operate in school boy NZ, to assess what could work here.
6. 1 thing I do aspire to and that is serous improvement in school boy rugby, it's profile, and the flow on effects it has beyond.
So if that means CHANGE so be it.

 

[White line fever]

We all agree that other sports are eating our lunch.
We all agree that the ARU are doing nothing to support junior rugby,including school boy rugby.
So unless we lift the profile of our school boy rugby, as opposed to sticking with the same old same old, the sliding effect will inevitably continue.

Please don't come back with junior junior levels or colts etc, this level of rugby is critical to top level rugby and that is all that we are discussing here.

 

[Not in straight]

@WLF love your passion

A few observations.

1) It would appear that the supporters of the schools that have enjoyed success are more in favor of the status quo (2 rounds).

2) From a Shore supporter perspective the last 3/4 years (2 rounds) has been pretty downright demoralizing. I have seen every 1st XV match for 3 years, The results are 3 wins, 1 draw and 26 losses, over 30 competition AAGPS Matches. While the 3 wins were Epic, they were too few and far between to rate as any measure of success.

We can debate the reasons for Shores situation and the whys and wherefores of the various strengths of different schools in another thread.

3) I would think one of the main reasons to move the comp back to 1 round is so that more matches can be played with other schools (not the same schools over and over and getting the same result). And clearly there is going to be some attempt to grade schools to get a fair contest.

4) Had this format been in play this year, Shore would have its 1 win from round 2, and a penalty goal loss to the eventual winners, and were leading strongly at halftime in another match, and 2 solid losses. Then they had wins vs, Trinity and Barker & Stannies, That would be a better season for the boys. The non competition games with other schools will still be celebrated and recorded as WINS,

Sorry if I see the world a bit differently to others, I do think there is some merit in the change,

 

[loiterer]

@WLF love your passion

A few observations.

1) It would appear that the supporters of the schools that have enjoyed success are more in favor of the status quo (2 rounds).

2) From a Shore supporter perspective the last 3/4 years (2 rounds) has been pretty downright demoralizing. I have seen every 1st XV match for 3 years, The results are 3 wins, 1 draw and 26 losses, over 30 competition AAGPS Matches. While the 3 wins were Epic, they were too few and far between to rate as any measure of success.

We can debate the reasons for Shores situation and the whys and wherefores of the various strengths of different schools in another thread.

3) I would think one of the main reasons to move the comp back to 1 round is so that more matches can be played with other schools (not the same schools over and over and getting the same result). And clearly there is going to be some attempt to grade schools to get a fair contest.

4) Had this format been in play this year, Shore would have its 1 win from round 2, and a penalty goal loss to the eventual winners, and were leading strongly at halftime in another match, and 2 solid losses. Then they had wins vs, Trinity and Barker & Stannies, That would be a better season for the boys. The non competition games with other schools will still be celebrated and recorded as WINS,

Sorry if I see the world a bit differently to others, I do think there is some merit in the change,

I don't really see how changing the competition is within Shore's interests, particularly if they insist on their stance on recruiting and scholarships. They will be playing against schools that are not bound by the same rules. In the future they can't count on beating Trinity and Barker.

Though, I am not sure that recruiting is where their problems lie. They don't seem to struggle too much in rowing. It seems that the school is willing to do what it takes to have a highly competitive rowing programme but not so much with rugby. IIRC they had a boat come 5th in the National championships for VIIIs but that was their 2nd VIII, their 1st VIII won it. They also won every race in the GPS Head of The River.

They achieved their rowing results from the same cohort of boys that struggle on the rugby field in the A comps. That suggests to me that it is not so much a problem with the cattle but with the rugby programme. The rugby master has implemented a plan to turnaround the rugby performance of the school and if it gets the right resources and support it will achieve its goal.

The GPS 1st rugby competition this year was very competitive and the Shore team should be very proud of their performance.

 

[Azzuri]

I don't really see how changing the competition is within Shore's interests,.

....Or in any other school's or association's interest....