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NSW U16 Trial Games and Selections 2011

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Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
That they won is not in dispute. That they played a school team of 18 yr olds - not in dispute. That SJRU are meant to be the very cream of their age for Sydney club rugby - they ought to kick the japanese schoolboys. Yes a win, but not as emphatically as many think they shoul have won by. Simple!

Rockon & Sprites,

MOTH is correct; which is not easy for me to say because the views of MOTH and I are usually polarised ... lol! Nevertheless, no matter which way you view the result (even without the stars that were rested on the bench) the SJRU team are the supposed to be the 'Cream of the Crop' and I for one expected more of them.

With respect to KG being a decent team, I agree they were tenacious in attack and defence. In saying that contrast this with last year's Sanix World School Rugby Invitational held in Japan, where KG finshed 14th out of 4 international schools and 12 Japanese schools. In other words they are not the best that Japan has (in fact they are far from it)!

Notwithstanding the fact that the KG boys were U/18's, there physical size was not dissimilar to that of the SJRU boys. For mine the SJRU boys were marginally larger.

Regards,
Newbie
 

sprites

Bob McCowan (2)
Rockon & Sprites,

MOTH is correct; which is not easy for me to say because the views of MOTH and I are usually polarised ... lol! Nevertheless, no matter which way you view the result (even without the stars that were rested on the bench) the SJRU team are the supposed to be the 'Cream of the Crop' and I for one expected more of them.

With respect to KG being a decent team, I agree they were tenacious in attack and defence. In saying that contrast this with last year's Sanix World School Rugby Invitational held in Japan, where KG finshed 14th out of 4 international schools and 12 Japanese schools. In other words they are not the best that Japan has (in fact they are far from it)!

Notwithstanding the fact that the KG boys were U/18's, there physical size was not dissimilar to that of the SJRU boys. For mine the SJRU boys were marginally larger.

Regards,
Newbie

Okay, fair enough, that the SJRU U16's are the 'Cream of the Crop' for their age. That being said, can we step back and understand that these are just kids, yourself and MOTH are so competitive about this team it is ridiculous. As I mentioned before, the Queensland Reds' didn't have the best start to their season but as we all know were Super Rugby Champions. This SJRU U16's team is getting into gear and I cannot wait till the Country game. I believe the SJRU side will have everything perfected and it should be a cracker!
 

Malcsy

Sydney Middleton (9)
Gentlemen,

There is a very good club game on this weekend at Canterbury's home ground, Wills Oval in Earlwood. It is a top of the table clash between Canterbury and Merrylands. After going through the sign-on sheets there will be no less than 11 SJRU and NSW School representatives on show at this game. They are;

Merrylands
1. Malaki Afele (SJRU)
2. Jamo Clark (SJRU)
3. Jake Roberts (SJRU)
4. Junior Satiu (SJRU)
5. Oliver Takiveikata (NSW Schools)
6. Trent Winterstein (SJRU)

Canterbury
1. Connor Finn (SJRU)
2. Christian Kagiassis (SJRU)
3. Vaka Maile (SJRU)
4. Michael Morgan (NSW Schools)
5. Hector Titterton (SJRU)
6. Addison Demetriou

Not many in rugby would know of this lad but I have added Demetriou here because this lad in an absolute gun player. He has now since moved to league (and will probably make his career there). He is team-mates with Morgan in the Bulldogs HM team (and actually made it into Bulldogs HM team when he was 14 which is somewhat exceptional). In addition he also made the U/16 NSW league team this year with Moeroa and Morgan, and last year made the U/15 Australian League team with Robert Wofgramm.

This will be some fixture!

Regards,
Newbie

Come on Newbs... Top of the table clash ??? Good game that it might be, but that's 1 vs 4 ! Hawkesbury and Norths Pirates might have a little bit more to say about the direction of the title, particularly Norths who won last year, and a large portion of the team the 2009 and 2008 MNZ A Grade as Manly Roos...
 

Man on the hill

Alex Ross (28)
Gentlemen,

There is a very good club game on this weekend at Canterbury's home ground, Wills Oval in Earlwood. It is a top of the table clash between Canterbury and Merrylands. After going through the sign-on sheets there will be no less than 11 SJRU and NSW School representatives on show...

...
This will be some fixture!

Regards,
Newbie

Newbie - picked it like a nose - should be a heck of a game. Have heard that Morgan & Clarke have not been regulars at club this season, so it may be they don't play. But didn't Clarke play at Canterbury a few years back - will it be old friends week or something else?
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
Okay, fair enough, that the SJRU U16's are the 'Cream of the Crop' for their age. That being said, can we step back and understand that these are just kids, yourself and MOTH are so competitive about this team it is ridiculous.

Sprites,

With all due respect alot of these boys stopped being kids when they started accepting reward in exchange for their rugby talent. In addition most are presently being groomed by the ARU as future potential Wallabies, or Waratahs, Reds, Brumbries, Rebels, and the like! In fact they are treated as quasi-professionals!

I will therefore have to disagree with you on that perspective!

Regards,
Newbie
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
Come on Newbs... Top of the table clash ??? Good game that it might be, but that's 1 vs 4 ! Hawkesbury and Norths Pirates might have a little bit more to say about the direction of the title, particularly Norths who won last year, and a large portion of the team the 2009 and 2008 MNZ A Grade as Manly Roos...

I know its 1 v. 4 (and obviously the other teams will figure in the mix as they did last year), but only 2 points separates 2, 3 and 4 and the last time Canterbury played Norths they won by a near cricket score.

Furthermore, according to the table (as i understand the same) it seems that if Canterbury loses to Merrylands their season will end, and therefore they will playing for their survival against an unbeaten Merrylands.

I must say however that i picked the game more for the boys on show than the position of the teams!

Regards,
Newbie.
 

Malcsy

Sydney Middleton (9)
I know its 1 v. 4 (and obviously the other teams will figure in the mix as they did last year), but only 2 points separates 2, 3 and 4 and the last time Canterbury played Norths they won by a near cricket score.

Furthermore, according to the table (as i understand the same) it seems that if Canterbury loses to Merrylands their season will end, and therefore they will playing for their survival against an unbeaten Merrylands.

I must say however that i picked the game more for the boys on show than the position of the teams!

Regards,
Newbie.

Just had a little look on Buddha... Canterbury can still go through if they drop the Merrylands game, but they would need Norths to beat Hills in the last round and beat Hawkesbury themselves. The time of that game would suggest they could get their Sydney boys back for it, so would say they are in with a good chance of tidying up their side of things. One thing I also notice is Canterbury appear to be missing a point. They have played 10 (20 points) and won 6 (12 points), but the table says 31. Do you know if they were docked a point for not supplying a touchie, or some other offence ?
 

wreckless

Bob Loudon (25)
Sprites,

With all due respect alot of these boys stopped being kids when they started accepting reward in exchange for their rugby talent. In addition most are presently being groomed by the ARU as future potential Wallabies, or Waratahs, Reds, Brumbries, Rebels, and the like! In fact they are treated as quasi-professionals!

I will therefore have to disagree with you on that perspective!

Regards,
Newbie

I'm with Sprites on this one! I think it is a harsh and cynical view that the boys we are discussing on this thread have somehow forfeited their status as "kids" once they achieve any sort of elite status in their chosen sport. Reward in exchange for their rugby talent can come in many shapes and forms - academies, JGS, education etc. - but I reckon the greatest rewards come in the form of the mates and friendships made at this important stage of their journey to adulthood.

One of the great pleasures I get from this age group is seeing the rep boys go through the various stages ( Schools, Regionals, Country Championships ) and seeing the cross pollenisation of the group at every stage! The genuine respect between boys who one week are playing together at Schools and then belting each other the next at Regionals - then shaking a hand and having a chat and "see you at City vs. Country" or something - fantastic!

The SJRU boys may not have lived up to expectations last week but it is a fair point that a team needs some time to gel ( the old "team of champions vs. champion team" cliche perhaps ) - you only have to look at Australia vs. Samoa to underline the point. The lack of understanding and cohesion really showed after a week of photo shoots, media duties, public appearances instead of time spent together training and drilling to form a team.

The 16's are on the cusp of adulthood - but at this age they play a fantastic, pure form of the game (IMO!) without any of the rubbish that tends to creep in as they get older. They have a responsibility to themselves and their team mates, their clubs and their schools to perform to the best of their abilities at the highest level BUT they will be human and have bad days! I would rather watch an eager bunch of elite kids who give it their best, even while making errors, but who play our game with exhuberance and a sense of JOY than a bunch of robotic automatons who are doing it all by the numbers!

Sorry for the rant!:) . Bring on City vs. Country and good luck to all the Boys! Make the most of being "kids" - it will soon be gone!
 

dermo

Larry Dwyer (12)
Sprites,

With all due respect alot of these boys stopped being kids when they started accepting reward in exchange for their rugby talent. In addition most are presently being groomed by the ARU as future potential Wallabies, or Waratahs, Reds, Brumbries, Rebels, and the like! In fact they are treated as quasi-professionals!

I will therefore have to disagree with you on that perspective!

Regards,
Newbie

Newbie,

I generally agree with most of your posts but unfortunatly I disagree with this one. If you were not aware I am only 16 and I am good friends with a few of the boys often discussed here and I can tell you that just because a boy is a talanted athlete, and quite often play a professional standard of rugby, does not mean they should be treated as such. Most of these boys simply play for enjoyment and I must agree with Sprites words "can we step back and understand these are just kids" Also just because they may play for the Wallabies in the future, it does not mean they should be treated as a Wallaby now.

Regards,
Dermo.
 

no9

Ted Fahey (11)
Dear Mr Lee Grant,

It appears that one of your esteemed contributors has taken offence to my questioning of his thoughts on a cohort of U16's players. While no malice was originally intended, the accusations meted out since have led me to seek a right of reply.

As an arbitor of these threads you have stated there are rules against the belittling of players and teams in these forums, yet you appear not to have a problem with some of the ascertions from said contributor. I do, especially with regards to 15/16 yr old kids being told they will be a laughing stock within Japanese rugby circles and that they are not up to a required standard (according to said contributor, not those who selected them). Would said contributor be happy to be told he wasn't "stepping up to the plate" with his opinions and that on Japanese rugby forums his opinions were being ridiculed?

There was no subterfuge intended in taking a piece of previous public expression (quote) and linking it with a current expression of opinion from the same contributor to form a point. Perhaps I should have added a long winded explanation to accompany the chosen text but it appeared quite obvious to me. I have noticed this same form of making a point in other threads and another contributor has used this method in this same thread since (although from different contributors). For that crime I will happily plead guilty.

However, whether the other ordained 5 players from the list of best players in years played or not, this doesn't give anybody the right to denegrade or ridicule the abilities of a team of hard working kids from the anonymity of cyberspace. Had this thread been on the playing merits of paid professionals and their form (not kids) then it could have slipped comfortably through to the keeper.

If the aggrieved party is feeling insulted by my challenging his ascertions then it might be an opportune moment to reflect on how the targets of his anonymous statements are also feeling. Perhaps as requested if I am to grow up it would also be wise for him to toughen up. Fortunately, I am not a parent of a boy who played in the said game, otherwise I may have been required to break forum rules and let Mr Newbie know of my dissapointment in his ascertions in more than two words and a question mark.

Open forums are what they are, an avenue to put out an anonymous opinion and have it agreed with or challenged. As an old coach once told me "If you don't like getting kicked don't go into a ruck".

As my only interest in this thread is to stay in touch with the names of some of the players I'm not exposed to in my travels, any sanctions you feel you must impose, feel confident in the Knowledge that I no longer have need of the challenge of the kids forum and will happily wait to see who goes any further from another side of the field. I have no continuing anomosity with anyone, I simply felt that those boys were being unfairly attacked and asked a question.
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
It appears that one of your esteemed contributors has taken offence to my questioning of his thoughts on a cohort of U16's players. While no malice was originally intended, the accusations meted out since have led me to seek a right of reply ...

If the aggrieved party is feeling insulted by my challenging his ascertions then it might be an opportune moment to reflect on how the targets of his anonymous statements are also feeling ...

Open forums are what they are, an avenue to put out an anonymous opinion and have it agreed with or challenged. As an old coach once told me "If you don't like getting kicked don't go into a ruck"...

No9,

In repsonse to the first paragraph above, I took offence at the fact that you 'MANUFACTURED' a quote by using two of my 'SEPERATE' posts and then passed the same off as my singular post! Another has said that I should toughen up (or that I being overly senstative) and that people in my profession should be immune to criticism! That much is true; granted! However those in the legal profession take extreme offence at being MISREPRESENTED, as was the case here! I hope this now clears up the matter once and for all!!

With respect to the second paragraph I have extracted above; all I can say is to challenge my assertions all you like. As with everyone else in this room, you too are entitled to your opinion. All I ask is that you dont engage in the behaviour mentioned above! With regard to the "targets of my anonymous statements' as you say, I never single out any child in a derogatory manner. On the contrary, I believe I single out individuals for praise! When I do offer crticism I try to be constructive, and direct it at team perfomrmances! I am sorry but sometimes it is necessary to call a spade a spade, more so at the level of rugby we are discussing IMO!

As with your last paragraph I have extracted; you are more than correct, please afford me the same courtesy!

Regards,
Newbie.
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
Are they just kids or are they professional athletes? My Opinion!

I acknowledge that the protests within this site asking for some of us to “take a step back because our U/16’s are just kids” are valid positions to take! So too is the view that boys who play rugby of a high standard can do so purely just for the love of the game! Notwithstanding the validity of such positions and views, the same are not necessarily those of general application. With all due deference to those who will disagree with me here, labelling ‘ALL’ U/16 representative lads as just kids is hard for me to reconcile given that a considerable number of the same boys that have been selected in the three NSW U/16 representative teams are presently members and/or subjects of the recently created professional rugby development program, the ARU’s Junior Gold Squad. This is also in addition to those whom are members of the senior National Gold Squad and professional league development programs. Correct me if I am wrong but is it not the purpose of the JGS to identify, nurture and develop talented juniors in order to generate world class rugby players and deliver the same to the ranks of Australian ‘Super Rugby’ teams and in turn, the Wallabies? I believe that it is the case and from what I have seen the identification of talented rugby players for the JGS generally begins at the U/15 level and by the time those selected enter into the U/16 age category they have already spent a good part of a year in a professional rugby environment with all the associated benefits that are perceived to come with the same!

Of the current crop (as I shall refer to them) I personally know that several are contracted to various league entities and are remunerated by the same (this also in addition to the same being members of the JGS). Others are on scholarship (which is inclusive of full or part scholarships) at various GPS, CAS and ISA schools. As a result I can assure the members of this site that each of these boys who are in such a relationship are acutely aware that their position is one of "quid pro quo"! If not they should be made aware! Accordingly they are also aware that their tenure is a performance based relationship with expectations attached, and those who beg to differ may need to open their eyes. Such lads also have 'Sport Agents/Managers' that look after their affairs. I know for a fact that several of the boys I have mentioned in my post at #1391 actually have full time managers and surprise, surprise some of them are strictly 'rugby only'. And these are only the ones I know of personally.

At the conclusion of last Sunday’s U/16 SJRU game I overheard two lads who were probably in their early to mid 20’s giving their respective summation of the U/16’s game. Both were of Polynesian descent with “thuck” accents that strongly suggested that they were from our lovely 7th (north and south island) state of ‘Eastern Australia’. Essentially both lads were ridiculing SJRU’s performance and in doing so one said to the other, with words to the effect of “if that’s the best they got, no wonder our B team hammered the Wallabies.” With that both were in fits of laughter! Essentially the U/16 SJRU team is the ‘cream of our crop’, they have inherited a winning legacy that has been left to them by former U/16 teams (in particular the victorious ‘Class of 2010’). Whenever this team runs out onto the paddock it should be the best team that can be fielded. The trials are over; they were conducted at the State, Regional, and Schools Championships. IMO these boys can no longer be labelled as kids, they are finely tuned athletes on the cusp of adulthood who are being professionally developed by the best the ARU can muster! Calls to “give the kids a break” (though warranted in some respects) is not going to appease the likes of Robert Taufa, Iona Taiki, and Niu who are now standing on the sidelines lamenting a missed opportunity that they would have given their ‘ALL’ had they been playing; the same (and IMO a much better) ‘ALL’ that each gave their respective teams at State and Regional.

In conclusion may I also say this? If one were to read my earlier posts (i.e. those prior to the selection of the SJRU and NSW Schools teams, in particular the SJRU team) I made favourable mention of certain lads who incidentally happen to go to CAS schools. Such lads included Jamo Clark, Afele Malaki, and Jake Roberts to name but a few. I also made favourable mention of a lad called Kagiassis from MSZ in addition to certain lads from the Barbarian’s, namely Aukofolau and Robert Taufa. When the SJRU team was eventually named the abovementioned lads were included (excepting Robert Taufa), however it was my opinion that the best team had not been selected and SJRU were going to struggle at the National Championship. IMO there were certain lads who deserved to be in the SJRU team ahead of others. Those lads were Trent Winterstein, George Taufa, Hector Titterton, Robert Taufa, Iona Taiki and Niu because all of them had outstanding performances at Regional. Since then 3 of my abovementioned lads have now been added to the SJRU squad so I feel vindicated; not only because they were selected, but more so for their stand-out performances during the game against KG.

Unfortunately the debate over whether a lad is to be labelled as ‘JUST A KID’ or a ‘QUASI- PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE’ is not black and white! No, no, no; it is not that easy, it is grey, and it is blurred, with no clear lines of delineation! We live in a world where we ask 17 year old children to make life decsions at school that affectivley chose a career path they will follow for the rest of their life. For mine, all that 17 year old boys should be doing is chasing young ladies, yet our society imposes this upon them! The same can be said of 16 year old talented rugby players; they should be playing purely for the love of the game. However professionalism and commercialisation has put a sword to such idealic notions and we are now seeing the commodification of U/16 rugby players!

Regards,
Newbie
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Staff member
No more on this matter please - step back. Any more of this forum ping pong will be zapped without apology. Even a post with a sentence included in it referring to the matter will disappear.

I realise fully that some folks may think such action is over the top but believe me, it is better for forum health. U/16 passions run high.

Thank you.
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
The Chief has spoken!

Gentlemen,

The 2011 U/16 World Marble Championship is on in Vladivostok this September, any thoughts on favourites or front-runners ... LMAO!!!
 
F

Flavor Flav

Guest
Professional Kids

OK we will label these kids "professionals", I can recall many times where professional teams have had poor performances. If these U16 boys are being labelled as professionals then we must accept they are in the same category as the Super Players or international players. I can recall the Reds being belted by the waratahs, and out muscled by the brumbies, prior to winning the Super title, i can recall England being belted 30 something nil by South Africa in the 2007 world cup before working their way into a final and only just being beaten. I remember in the same world cup favourites New Zealand bowing out to rank outsiders France. I recall many professional sportsmen and women and teams across many sports having poor performances during their time. The fact that the SJRU had a poor performance and still managed a win against a team that trains 5 days per week and has played a number of seasons together, who also beat the probable CAS premiers, and a country whilst still a 2nd tier nation hosts Australia's highest paid (former) Wallaby and now have in place a very dedicated high performance system focusing on youth player development leading up to the 2019 world cup. These signs look so good for SJRU as often poor performers in early games often finish on or very close to the top of the podium.
 

lily

Vay Wilson (31)
1436 posts. This will make it 1437. Some of you need to get a hobby. Do you realise that the majority of these CHILDREN will never play senior football. The way that some of you discuss these guy's is amazing. I will back this up with some names tomorrow or the next. Seriously Under 16's? Who fucking cares? I dont like using profanity but in this case, I think it is warranted.
 

CTPE

Nev Cottrell (35)
1436 posts. This will make it 1437. Some of you need to get a hobby. Do you realise that the majority of these CHILDREN will never play senior football. The way that some of you discuss these guy's is amazing. I will back this up with some names tomorrow or the next. Seriously Under 16's? Who fucking cares? I dont like using profanity but in this case, I think it is warranted.

You are undoubtedly right lily.....perhaps that's why we're just enjoying it all whilst we can :)
 

kiwi playing in Oz

Allen Oxlade (6)
The bitching on the thread is so funny it's ridiculous! I do agree with Newbs that any financial gain for service indicates professional environment. During the state champ training a number of scholarship holding players were INSTRUCTED by their sportmaster when to play trial games and when not to play and the parents went along with it. Crazy don't u think. You can bet ur bottom dollar the Merrylands stars will be resting today unless they are loosing and suddenly the big guns will be out lol.
 

Newbie

Bill McLean (32)
Merrylands Unstoppable!

Gentlemen,

There is a very good club game on this weekend at Canterbury's home ground, Wills Oval in Earlwood. It is a top of the table clash between Canterbury and Merrylands. After going through the sign-on sheets there will be no less than 11 SJRU and NSW School representatives on show at this game. They are;

Merrylands
1. Malaki Afele (SJRU)
2. Jamo Clark (SJRU)
3. Jake Roberts (SJRU)
4. Junior Satiu (SJRU)
5. Oliver Takiveikata (NSW Schools)
6. Trent Winterstein (SJRU)

Canterbury
1. Connor Finn (SJRU)
2. Christian Kagiassis (SJRU)
3. Vaka Maile (SJRU)
4. Michael Morgan (NSW Schools)
5. Hector Titterton (SJRU)
6. Addison Demetriou

... This will be some fixture!

Well I went out to watch this game and must admit I was very impressed. The game was played in muddy conditions with detracted from the spectacle however the physicality of the game more than made up for it. Merrylands ran out eventual victors 26-17, however the result was only determined in the last ten minutes. Up until then Canterbury were leading, but on the back a very heavy penalty count Canterbury had a player sent off for repeated off-side infringements and Merrylands were able to put on three late tries.

The difference today was Merryland's unstoppable juggernaut forward pack. In comparison Canterbury were much smaller and eventually they were worn down. Without a doubt the hard running Afele was what separated the two sides in the end. Every time he got the ball he made metres at will, especially in the latter stages of the match. To their credit the Canterbury forwards never gave up and this was reflected in the final score! With the exception of Jamo Clark, Merrylands had all their star players at the game (however I don't believe I saw Jake Robert take to the field). All played well considering the slippery and muddy conditions. With the exception of Demetriou Canterbury too had most of their stars at the game and they all played well as the final score would suggest.

I spoke with the Canterbury coach at the end of the game. As most might remember he was also the Barbarian's co-coach this year. As it turns out he has been the team coach for 4 years with 3 premierships to his credit (they were the R/U on the other occasion). I was very saddened to hear that it will be his team's last year together as some of the boys were not certain of being able to commit to returning to rugby for 2012, and the rest would be going to Sydney University colts.

He was telling me that in the last two seasons (including this one) he has lost 9 players to 5 different NRL clubs, and that he was fed up with developing players for league to then swoop in and take them. He stated that it was very hard to get players to remain in rugby as league in his area was very hard to compete with, and that the competition moving from Saturdays to Sundays resulted in him losing players to league this year! MOTH was correct about Morgan and the Bulldogs (again hard for me to say … lmao), but in addition to him Sye said he would also be losing Robert Taufa to the Dragons (I mentioned this lad in earlier posts, most notably in one for his demolition of Harry Jones at Regional), and Kagiassis back to the Eels!

He was considering on going for another season next year but several weeks ago he discovered that the rest of his key players in the team were secretly being poached by Sydney University colts. Something he was very bitter about! Who could blame him? Then again Sydney University has been notorious for engaging in such conduct as of recent times (but doing the same to one of their own affiliated junior village clubs is unforgivable)! It is my understanding that one of Uni’s colts coaches was dragged over the coals for similar conduct last season! It would seem like Uni are back to their old tricks again! I for one find it diabolical that any coach would put U/16’s in a game against U/20’s; where is the duty of care?

All that aside it now seems like a foregone conclusion that Merrylands (with their newly formed super-team this season) will take out this year’s U/16 title! I find it amazing the lengths that some teams will go to in securing a premiership ... lmao!

Regards,
Newbie
 
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