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QLD GPS Rugby 2017

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The Nomad

Bob Davidson (42)
Draw for the Qld schools trials...

Wed 21st
4.30pm CSS v Chairman's XV
5.45pm AIC v GPS 3
7.00pm GPS 1 v GPS 2

Thurs 22nd
4.30pm GPS 3 v Chairman's XV
5.45pm GPS 2 v CSS
7.00pm GPS 1 v AIC

Friday 23rd
2.15pm GPS 2 v Chairman's XV
3.30pm CSS v AIC
4.45pm GPS 1 v GPS 3

The 7pm game on Wed might even drag a few away from SOO, looking forward to seeing how the boys combine.
 

Dark Shark

Alex Ross (28)
Cam Howard is a brilliant footballer.
Very strong and very quick
Great football brain
One wonders why he is not in the GT run on side.
Politics perhaps. Maybe just trying to focus him.
Never healthy to have a parent who had a son just
recently through the school as the assistant coach.
Bad move.
If he does not make the run on side in the first game
I would be flabbergasted

My apologies Alistair, for possibly jumping too quickly to rebut your assertions above earlier on. However, I think you are targeting the wrong person responsible.

I was very surprised a week or two later when I saw that Cam Howard had not made any of the GPS teams this year. However, things began to click when I found out / realised that it is the Head Coach who nominates players to be selected for these teams and then the teams are formed with a bit of debate from the Head Coaches of the respective schools.

At Terrace Rugby in recent years there seems to have been an extremely strong anti – rowing push. Three or four years ago I remember Terrace lost around six of their best rowers from yr10 so they could focus on rugby in yr11 and 12. Since then there seems to have been a bit of a talent drain from the Terrace rowing program to Rugby. I am not sure why exactly, but a couple of posters to this forum that seem to have strong connections to the Terrace rugby camp really made the anti-rowing stance clear last year in this forum and targeted Howard who had rowed First VIII for the school when he was in Year 10. I remember Brave & Game saying things about Howard where he was “concerned that rowing will see him too lean to have any sort of impact”. B&G questioned his physical presence calling him small, which I found to be completely false when I later learned that he was weighing around mid 90kgs, which was not too bad for a backrower. Another poster here who seemed to have strong Terrace rugby connections was Dark Side who referred to Howard as “the poster boy for why rowing is bad for your rugby”. Dark Side then went further and said “rowing is great for cardio, however for strength training it fails to provide much of what is essential for various positions in rugby and is also detrimental to speed.”

Several posters like Gungenia and myself had a crack at these false assertions. Particularly saying that rowing can and is complimentary to rugby. BBC have five of their GPS rugby representatives who rowed this year. Guys like Hosea, Vela-Tupohi, Taugaele, Van Nek and Kibble. These guys have not lost anything on the rugby field from the rowing they have done this season. None of those guys, or Howard for that matter, seemed to be short on strength and speed when I saw them in GPS trials at TSS.

However, Terrace Rugby seem to take a completely opposite view. Particularly when the GPS representatives from Terrace for this week include several players who had quit rowing to focus on rugby. With one of those players, who is a fine rugby player but was selected for a specialized position that I am sure he has played in less than two games ever. Then none of the (three) players I know of who rowed this year at Terrace, who I thought were a good chance of selection even got a look in.

You could say that Howard was not good enough against other backrowers from other schools. He was selected as a shadow reserve for the QLD Schoolboy 7’s team at the end of last year. One of only a handful of forwards in the squad. But appears to be the only non selection of eligible players from this squad into the GPS teams. Then there is also the selection of a yr11 backrower from Terrace (who looks around 20kgs lighter than Howard) who I saw get belted and driven behind the gain line time and again down at trials at TSS a couple of weeks ago but gets the nod for a GPS team ahead of him. That nod pushed / nominated by the school’s Head Coach.

I think the non-selections for Howard and other rowers at school and for GPS teams are about sending a message to future aspiring Terrace rugby players – DO NOT ROW if you want to play First XV RUGBY.
 

Oracle83

Ron Walden (29)
I think the non-selections for Howard and other rowers at school and for GPS teams are about sending a message to future aspiring Terrace rugby players – DO NOT ROW if you want to play First XV RUGBY.[/quote]

Good purge I totally agree - introspective intraschool intrasport politics - very short sighted...
 

BraveandGame

Bob Loudon (25)
.....I am not sure why exactly, but a couple of posters to this forum that seem to have strong connections to the Terrace rugby camp really made the anti-rowing stance clear last year in this forum and targeted Howard who had rowed First VIII for the school when he was in Year 10. I remember Brave & Game saying things about Howard where he was “concerned that rowing will see him too lean to have any sort of impact”. B&G questioned his physical presence calling him small .....

Well said and a well argued point – just a few clarifications and comments from me.

1) I have absolutely no connection to the GT rugby brains trust
2) all comments here are opinions and observations biased by the fact I watch predominantly GT games.
3) I rate Howard highly and am surprised he is not an automatic selection in the back row in 2017, but was not surprised he was not a regular member of the team in 2016 (plenty of options at 7) and my comments last year were entirely in reference to him playing as a 16 year old.

Your quotes while accurate are a little out of context- my comments re Howard, his size and rowing were almost entirely in reference to the suggestion he could play at prop (or as an impact No 8) in last year’s first XV as a 16 year old. I personally believed he could not achieve a move to the front row and row at the same time as a 16 year old competing with 18 year olds– not that I think it was ever seriously considered.

I don’t believe rowing and rugby are mutually exclusive any more than I believe rowing is good for your rugby in any and all cases.

Finally, from my limited vantage point I would say any belief that rowing is frowned upon or any way detrimental to a rugby career at GT is misguided or at least exaggerated.

If I had to guess as to Howard's current standing at GT , I would be looking at his injury record and (in)ability to stay on the field and training paddock before his decision to row.


On that, is all the rowing at BBC in anyway related to their horror injury run – are the often injured players rowers?? I ask that as a genuine question not to imply anything.

BAG
 

Countryjack

Alfred Walker (16)
Well said and a

I don’t believe rowing and rugby are mutually exclusive any more than I believe rowing is good for your rugby in any and all cases.

Finally, from my limited vantage point I would say any belief that rowing is frowned upon or any way detrimental to a rugby career at GT is misguided or at least exaggerated.

If I had to guess as to Howard's current standing at GT , I would be looking at his injury record and (in)ability to stay on the field and training paddock before his decision to row.


On that, is all the rowing at BBC in anyway related to their horror injury run – are the often injured players rowers?? I ask that as a genuine question not to imply anything.

BAG



Very well put. As for the BBC i hear they really had no choice but to row. Only one was in first 8 and the others were swanning around in lower crews. lets face it - props with short arms are not the best shape to row. Changes next year I understand . A lot of pressure to win the Head of River at BBc "like the glory days" from old boys.
 

Garry Owens

Alan Cameron (40)
Hmmmm.

BBC Best First XV Forwards ( As awarded ) in the last 3 years :

2014 : Tom Davidson ( Captain of Boats and No 4/6 )
2015 : Darcy Tumua -Swain ( Captain of Boats and Captain of Rugby )
2016 : Jack Kibble ( First VIII and No 6 )

I think TD may have rowed Australia U20's and recently did his ankle earlier in the year playing / developing in the UQ Sevens program.

DTS played Australian Barbarians and is now Brumbies U20's

A recent Australian Schoolboys Rep supposedly credits a big part of the conditioning he required - to Rowing , even though , he wasn't a stellar Rower, per se, but he participated .

Down through younger age groups there is clear evidence in a few interesting individual cases of significant improved performance . It's undeniable based on current results.

However ..........( and a big however )

It is NOT for everybody or every body for a range of specific and individual reasons

Mandating compulsory Rowing is also not a great idea -you don't get the type of Shed you are striving for and it just leads to the myths and mistruths re : physical performance and the limitations in those that participate in both sports - from those that feel as though they have their agenda stymied .

It should be pretty simple . Pick your most skilled , smartest athletes for the Field or for the Boat - each spot , in what you define and what you want is measurable .........

Invest in Coaching excellence .....and then Coach them

/End
 

BraveandGame

Bob Loudon (25)
Hmmmm.

BBC Best First XV Forwards ( As awarded ) in the last 3 years :


Harry Wilson captained the 1st X1 and played Qld Schoolboys cricket -- additionally (in a sample of 1) at GT 1st XV players who also played 1st X1 missed no games through injury.

Perhaps all tight 5 aspirants should play cricket ;-)

BAG
 

Garry Owens

Alan Cameron (40)
And in terms of your earlier question BAG re : The increase in rate of injury in recent years because of Rowing the answer to that is , in the main , No

BBC was cursed going back to 2012 when Tom Barker was still running the show with Conrad Quick and Lolo Fakaosilea going down and Captain , Braeden Hood , requiring heart surgery

In recent times , most impactful injuries , have been to Conrad Green ( last year and this year ) Len Ikitau ( last year ) Ben Simpson ( last year and year before that )

Overwhelmingly , as in 90% + of them over the last 5 years , from my recollection , haven't been Rowers

There were those with a view at the time that "the push" may have been too early and too steep too early - that increased risk . Maybe. Maybe not.

Expectations in a couple of those years was pretty high where the top line of talent was ( in comparison to elsewhere ) but probably what did get highlighted in those years , besides those lofty expectations , was the lack of true depth
 

BraveandGame

Bob Loudon (25)
And in terms of your earlier question BAG re : The increase in rate of injury in recent years because of Rowing the answer to that is , in the main , No

BBC was cursed going back to 2012 when Tom Barker was still running the show with Conrad Quick and Lolo Fakaosilea going down and Captain , Braeden Hood , requiring heart surgery

In recent times , most impactful injuries , have been to Conrad Green ( last year and this year ) Len Ikitau ( last year ) Ben Simpson ( last year and year before that )

Overwhelmingly , as in 90% + of them over the last 5 years , from my recollection , haven't been Rowers

There were those with a view at the time that "the push" may have been too early and too steep too early - that increased risk . Maybe. Maybe not.

Expectations in a couple of those years was pretty high where the top line of talent was ( in comparison to elsewhere ) but probably what did get highlighted in those years , besides those lofty expectations , was the lack of true depth

Fair enough - BBC's injuries to really key players over the last several years just seem to bad to be true - which always make one look for a reason, even though there most likely isn't one.

All schools have injuries and players that miss games, but BBC seems to lose their key players at key moments more regularly than the others.
 

Greg Adams

Frank Nicholson (4)
GPS 1

Egan Siggs TSS

Eugene Koorts IGS

Moses Alo-Emile BSHS

Harry Wilson GT

Trevor Hosea BBC

Tom Kibble BBC

Joseph Small NC

Cullen Ngamanu BBC

Phoenix Hunt NC

Campbell Parata TSS

Villiami Lea IGS

Noah Lolesio TSS

Clyde Rapilla IGS

Hamiso Tabuai BGS

Max Dowd TSS

Tom Forde NC

Clinton Malolua BSHS

Sini Wolske IGS

M J Havili ACGS

Tom Cole TGS

George Tarabay ACGS

Carter Gordon BBC

Jeremy Kempston IGS
 

Greg Adams

Frank Nicholson (4)
GPS 2

Prynce Taugaele BBC

Rhys Van Nek BBC

Emile Tuimavave BGS

Ryan Gassman GT

Harrison Cannon NC

Bailey Tautau NC

Hayden Moseley NC

Joseph FaulaloIGS

Will Kirk GT

Cooper Whiteside IGS

Matthew Stirling BBC

Hoani Ford-Stevens GT

Xavier Soli NC

Jangala Bennett NC

Byron RalstonGT

Ethan Dobbins GT

John Paul Tominiko ACGS

Tyrell Kopua TSS

Emmitt KeepaIGS

Reno Gerrard TSS

Finlay Hume ACGS

Harry Leerentveld TGS

Dennis Waight BGS
 
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