Rate the Wallabies 2008 Spring Tour
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Chilla Wilson (44)
I'm very happy with the overall success of the tour we won 4 from 6 & Alan Lews played a big part in the two losses.
Our defence has improved since the Tri Nations & the scrum at full strength with Robinson & Baxter up front & MMM at openside was very strong.
I'm hoping the backs can start to click into gear next season as it really didn't happen for them this year.
This tour has definitely improved our depth overall.
Our defence has improved since the Tri Nations & the scrum at full strength with Robinson & Baxter up front & MMM at openside was very strong.
I'm hoping the backs can start to click into gear next season as it really didn't happen for them this year.
This tour has definitely improved our depth overall.
I gave it a good.
Big positives - forward play in set pieces has improved. Breakdown intensity needs work though. Players like Sharpe, Chisolm, MMM and the front row exceeded my expectations. Defense got better and better.
Negatives - back play aimless, especially kick and kick-chase. HOWEVER, I am less bothered in that we never really found a settled backline combo. The potential line-up of 9 - Burgess, 10-Giteau / Barnes, 12 - Barnes / Giteau / AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), 13 - Mortlock / AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), 11 & 14 - Tuqiri / Hynes / Ioane / Turner, 15 - Mitchell / Shepherd gives some depth possibilities provided all are fit. Nonetheless, big improvements are needed here.
I think Deans has taken us forward, but feel there is plenty of growth yet to see.
Big positives - forward play in set pieces has improved. Breakdown intensity needs work though. Players like Sharpe, Chisolm, MMM and the front row exceeded my expectations. Defense got better and better.
Negatives - back play aimless, especially kick and kick-chase. HOWEVER, I am less bothered in that we never really found a settled backline combo. The potential line-up of 9 - Burgess, 10-Giteau / Barnes, 12 - Barnes / Giteau / AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), 13 - Mortlock / AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), 11 & 14 - Tuqiri / Hynes / Ioane / Turner, 15 - Mitchell / Shepherd gives some depth possibilities provided all are fit. Nonetheless, big improvements are needed here.
I think Deans has taken us forward, but feel there is plenty of growth yet to see.
Aussie D
Dick Tooth (41)
I thought we were okay but want to see the Wallabies developing an extra gear in our play. If I never see an aimless kick again it will be too soon, I don't mind them kicking but make sure that every kick leads to a contest for possession. Also, the handling still needs a lot of work as too many players are dropping the ball cold or losing it in contact.
Thomond78
Colin Windon (37)
Backs poor, going backwards. Kicking game fecking atrocious.
Forwards good, improving. Need to stop being stooopid, especially at the breakdown. Should all be sent off to watch videos of Richie McCaw over the close season and instead of throwing an NtA-style wobbly, ask themselves, "Why did he do there that made the ref think it was okay?" - and copy it.
Work in progress.
Forwards good, improving. Need to stop being stooopid, especially at the breakdown. Should all be sent off to watch videos of Richie McCaw over the close season and instead of throwing an NtA-style wobbly, ask themselves, "Why did he do there that made the ref think it was okay?" - and copy it.
Work in progress.
Good point about McCaw - need to learn his mojo!Thomond78 said:
As for the backs, eliminate the stupid kicking and we're already a lot better. A settled combo would also be good, without injuries and the like. I am more optimistic than some, as I believe the talent is there, which is at least a good starting point. It needs better direction. Getting some wins with at times very poor play is good for the team's belief. The resurgence of the defense of old is good to see.
Scotty
David Codey (61)
As well as the pointless kicking (or poor contest for kicks) we need players to play in their natural positions. No more centres at fullback (Deans took 10 games to realise what we all new about AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) after 40minutes - including Connolly), no more poor distributers at 12, consider putting one of the best 12's in the world in that position, and try putting our best fullback in that position. Please.
T
TOCC
Guest
i was honestly worried before the start of this tour, i said the forward pack was one of the weakest it has being in years, but they stood up, albeit they faltered at scrum time on a few occasions.
Chisolm,whilst i would still prefer Horwill, Chisolm greatly exceeded my expectations, he got in there and did the dirty work, something he isnt known for
Sharpe, pulled out some stunning performances, i thought his days were numbered but he stood up when needed most
Mumm, MMM, both players played well, deans seems to prefer MMM but i cant seperate them
The backline did frustrate me, i understand the tactical reasons behind the up and under kicks, but surely they need to chance there hand at least once or twice in the match and run it back.
Chisolm,whilst i would still prefer Horwill, Chisolm greatly exceeded my expectations, he got in there and did the dirty work, something he isnt known for
Sharpe, pulled out some stunning performances, i thought his days were numbered but he stood up when needed most
Mumm, MMM, both players played well, deans seems to prefer MMM but i cant seperate them
The backline did frustrate me, i understand the tactical reasons behind the up and under kicks, but surely they need to chance there hand at least once or twice in the match and run it back.
A mixed report - about a B- which is bloody good after a couple of years we had under Eddie Jones.
Pack much improved and I don't mind the tag of the usual cop out of the set pieces being a "work in progress" as I think it is true for a change - especially the "progress" part.
There was a bit more interest in the physical contests but still not the weight and power that are needed to counter ruck - or more importantly to contest the other mob's counter rucking. All through Oz rugby there is the polite convention that our ball is our ball and their ball is their ball. No forward in NZ thinks like that. I know - I've played there.
There were far too many tries scored against us this year and this despite some apparently good tackling efforts.
By the measure of our rugby heritage the efforts of the back line were appallingly unscary to opponents.
That had to do will the lost skills that some Oz backs had in the days of the Eales and NFJ teams - passing accurately running at high speed, running into space like soccer players in case the ball was passed, and using other players rather than ones self, all come to mind as lost arts - but it also had to do with the lack of backs in Oz who are ball players and/or tactical kickers.
We have a whole bunch of blokes who can run with the pill, you can see it at the local park any Saturday, but that means beans in these days of scientific defence.
We had one bloke, 12 Berrick Barnes, who gave our backline a different look that made opponents take pause, but without him we had a ball runner at 10 and a couple of midfielders who like running over folks. And the wingers and fullback got lonely and had to be content with chasing kicks to keep warm.
Sure, this is over the top - the backs scored a few nice tries, but by and large you know I'm not speaking with a forked tongue. In the next couple of years we have to develop one of the young flyhalves to play at 12 to get a depth of 2 people. It is no use waiting for another Tim Horan as it might take another 50 years.
Despite those negatives it wasn't too bad though. I thought we deserved to keep our no 3 ranking, but I was surprised by the fall in standards of England and France. Only Wales looked any good and I'd fancy that we'd have won that game at home.
Well, maybe not if we were unfit as we were against Ireland in Melbourne when so many guys hadn't played for too long. There are benefits to a short pro season but there are drawbacks also.
And I do not digress because Deans is to be congratulated for getting the Oz players into shape for Hong Kong when they hadn't played for 7 weeks and some not since May. The flogging the Wallabies got in two camps was part of the reason why they finished strongly in their Euro games.
I doubt the Oz players will be sucking in seagulls next winter as they did in the 2nd half against Ireland in Melbourne.
The best game the Wallabies played in 2008 was against the Barbarians - or rather, it was the most significant game. I say that because many players who were 2nd or even 3rd string players played their hearts out in a team manner against a team of galacticos. Sure we have to discount the win because the Baas did their training in the bar, but look at the team imperatives the mostly inexperienced Wallabies observed.
That augurs well - our wannabies usually play like Brown's cows.
As others have mentioned: some of our denigrated players played better than we dared hope: Sharpe, Chisholm and Ioane come to mind.
Deans also gets a B-. His big challenge next year will be to have the Wallabies play consistently from week to week. Losing in Auckland and JHB is no disgrace but the fall in standards from the week before in Sydney and Durban was atrocious.
Pack much improved and I don't mind the tag of the usual cop out of the set pieces being a "work in progress" as I think it is true for a change - especially the "progress" part.
There was a bit more interest in the physical contests but still not the weight and power that are needed to counter ruck - or more importantly to contest the other mob's counter rucking. All through Oz rugby there is the polite convention that our ball is our ball and their ball is their ball. No forward in NZ thinks like that. I know - I've played there.
There were far too many tries scored against us this year and this despite some apparently good tackling efforts.
By the measure of our rugby heritage the efforts of the back line were appallingly unscary to opponents.
That had to do will the lost skills that some Oz backs had in the days of the Eales and NFJ teams - passing accurately running at high speed, running into space like soccer players in case the ball was passed, and using other players rather than ones self, all come to mind as lost arts - but it also had to do with the lack of backs in Oz who are ball players and/or tactical kickers.
We have a whole bunch of blokes who can run with the pill, you can see it at the local park any Saturday, but that means beans in these days of scientific defence.
We had one bloke, 12 Berrick Barnes, who gave our backline a different look that made opponents take pause, but without him we had a ball runner at 10 and a couple of midfielders who like running over folks. And the wingers and fullback got lonely and had to be content with chasing kicks to keep warm.
Sure, this is over the top - the backs scored a few nice tries, but by and large you know I'm not speaking with a forked tongue. In the next couple of years we have to develop one of the young flyhalves to play at 12 to get a depth of 2 people. It is no use waiting for another Tim Horan as it might take another 50 years.
Despite those negatives it wasn't too bad though. I thought we deserved to keep our no 3 ranking, but I was surprised by the fall in standards of England and France. Only Wales looked any good and I'd fancy that we'd have won that game at home.
Well, maybe not if we were unfit as we were against Ireland in Melbourne when so many guys hadn't played for too long. There are benefits to a short pro season but there are drawbacks also.
And I do not digress because Deans is to be congratulated for getting the Oz players into shape for Hong Kong when they hadn't played for 7 weeks and some not since May. The flogging the Wallabies got in two camps was part of the reason why they finished strongly in their Euro games.
I doubt the Oz players will be sucking in seagulls next winter as they did in the 2nd half against Ireland in Melbourne.
The best game the Wallabies played in 2008 was against the Barbarians - or rather, it was the most significant game. I say that because many players who were 2nd or even 3rd string players played their hearts out in a team manner against a team of galacticos. Sure we have to discount the win because the Baas did their training in the bar, but look at the team imperatives the mostly inexperienced Wallabies observed.
That augurs well - our wannabies usually play like Brown's cows.
As others have mentioned: some of our denigrated players played better than we dared hope: Sharpe, Chisholm and Ioane come to mind.
Deans also gets a B-. His big challenge next year will be to have the Wallabies play consistently from week to week. Losing in Auckland and JHB is no disgrace but the fall in standards from the week before in Sydney and Durban was atrocious.
F
formeropenside
Guest
Tour: average, par for the course over the last few years. Not good, certainly.
The Wallabies are still losing games they should have won. As LG says, our rucking and counter rucking needs work, and so do our backs at running into space, chasing kicks, and kicking.
The Wallabies are still losing games they should have won. As LG says, our rucking and counter rucking needs work, and so do our backs at running into space, chasing kicks, and kicking.
naza
Alan Cameron (40)
Most pleasing thing was the intangibles. Team spirit, comraderie, enthusiasm seemed much improved. Look at some of the player reactions at the end of the Baa Baas game.
Ironically our major downfall continues to be substandard teamwork. Forwards not working enough as a unit at ruck & pick and drive, disorganisation in attack, players not giving the ball carrier options.
Ironically our major downfall continues to be substandard teamwork. Forwards not working enough as a unit at ruck & pick and drive, disorganisation in attack, players not giving the ball carrier options.
R
rugbywhisperer
Guest
I rank the tour as a success 7 out of 10. I am also used to military gradings so a 7 out of 10 next time is a worse score. We must improve to be on top.
The scrum did improve and as a whole and our play at the breakdown was solid if not a little 'penalty'.
I am concerned at the backs apparent inability to make the breaks to which we have become accustomed.
There is a dire need to get the 9/12/12 situation sorted as I feel this is where the attacking problems are rooted.
What has please me most is the performances of the 'test newbies'.
This year has seen something like 14 new test players and to man they have all stood up and declared their hand. It is the test stallwarts that are in need of review.
The scrum did improve and as a whole and our play at the breakdown was solid if not a little 'penalty'.
I am concerned at the backs apparent inability to make the breaks to which we have become accustomed.
There is a dire need to get the 9/12/12 situation sorted as I feel this is where the attacking problems are rooted.
What has please me most is the performances of the 'test newbies'.
This year has seen something like 14 new test players and to man they have all stood up and declared their hand. It is the test stallwarts that are in need of review.
S
Spook
Guest
Sorry to say, but Horan was a lousy fly half. :'( I remember the years when Oz were trying a lot of options before Larkham came along.
ok, I think I said good. It was great to get up in the middle of the night to watch a win or two, as opposed to previous years. Like most, I have been impressed with our forwards but not so impressed with our backs. I think a lot of that is due to the lack of a playmaker at 12. In saying that, full marks to Mortlock who (despite some fumbles) proved me wrong be being a more than capable 12. Personally I still prefer the dual playmaker option, so Barnes was a loss. The loss of Tahu was a real shame for me too. I would have liked to see a lot more of him, so look forward to the S14.
A few dot points on the tour from my eyes:
- AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is a quality player, we just need to find his position. I even think he could make a bloody good fullback if he didn't rely on the up and under so much. Like others, he's a 13 for mine.
- Sorry NTA, but Phil Waugh is on the way out. I think even Beau Robinson will put pressure on him next year and we may see Phil only playing 60 mins for the Tahs.
- The success of Quade Cooper is evidence of the worth of backing your youngsters. Back them, empower them, pick them I reckon.
- well done to the old stagers, Baxter, Sharpe, Chisolm and Mortlock who proved their worth this tour.
- I reckon the changes will continue to flow. From the first test of the year to the last their were only 7 guys from the starting teams still there. The first test team for next year will be just as different I reckon.
But things are on the way. Deans's first year has seen change. We overaccomplished in the Tri Nations, due largely to the belief Deans put in the side. The NH tour success was based on, what, 3 intense training camps? Imagine what Deans can start doing now he is the fulltime Wallaby coach for the entire year.
A few dot points on the tour from my eyes:
- AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is a quality player, we just need to find his position. I even think he could make a bloody good fullback if he didn't rely on the up and under so much. Like others, he's a 13 for mine.
- Sorry NTA, but Phil Waugh is on the way out. I think even Beau Robinson will put pressure on him next year and we may see Phil only playing 60 mins for the Tahs.
- The success of Quade Cooper is evidence of the worth of backing your youngsters. Back them, empower them, pick them I reckon.
- well done to the old stagers, Baxter, Sharpe, Chisolm and Mortlock who proved their worth this tour.
- I reckon the changes will continue to flow. From the first test of the year to the last their were only 7 guys from the starting teams still there. The first test team for next year will be just as different I reckon.
But things are on the way. Deans's first year has seen change. We overaccomplished in the Tri Nations, due largely to the belief Deans put in the side. The NH tour success was based on, what, 3 intense training camps? Imagine what Deans can start doing now he is the fulltime Wallaby coach for the entire year.
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