• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Reds 2022

Ignoto

Ignoto

Greg Davis (50)
Roberts Rugby said:
Campbell Parata is at the Force now.
Its incomprehensible we are in this position
Click to expand...
I honestly thought the Reds did right on how they were bringing Carter through the system. Made him play plenty of QPR, didn't bring him into the Reds too early to allow him to focus on building a good foundation.

Tom Lynagh has pretty much replaced Mason Gordon, so we're a few years behind having another developed 10 come through.
 
C

Cancelled Account

Desmond Connor (43)
Ignoto said:
I honestly thought the Reds did right on how they were bringing Carter through the system. Made him play plenty of QPR, didn't bring him into the Reds too early to allow him to focus on building a good foundation.

Tom Lynagh has pretty much replaced Mason Gordon, so we're a few years behind having another developed 10 come through.
Click to expand...
Carter moved because he wanted to start quicker. I reckon he would have got more game time if he stayed. His manager didn’t give him the best opportunity did he.

EDIT. Heard today from a Reds Academy player that Mason Gordon was killing it on the Jnr Wallabies camp, and is leaps and bounds in front of Lynagh. Based on this, we might need to continue our shopping for a flyhalf. Not many available.
 
Last edited:
dru

dru

Tim Horan (67)
Derpus said:
Not that off-topic. He's old, good but not great at Super Rugby level and injury prone. You blokes should have a locked in at least one understudy by now (Lynagh might qualify I suppose) - particularly given you produce most of the talent these days.
Click to expand...

I think we have. Just the main bloke is so good ;) it's hard for them to get a chance. It's about to happen though.
 
dru

dru

Tim Horan (67)
Drew said:
Wasn’t Hamish Stewart the Australian U20s five eighth in the same team as ASY (Angus Scott-Young) (Angus Scott-Young), HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) (Harry Johnson-Holmes) and Perese (plus probably others)?
Click to expand...

Sure. He just didn't translate very well into a Super 10. Awesome rugby player. And of course he is settling into, not just the role he is given but also into a 10 much better each year that he plays.
 
Drew

Drew

Bob Davidson (42)
dru said:
Sure. He just didn't translate very well into a Super 10. Awesome rugby player. And of course he is setting into, not just the role he is given but also into a 10 much better each year that he plays.
Click to expand...
Totally understand, and from what I saw of him there he was serviceable but not spectacular. But at a push it might be worth a shot (it’s him or Jock Campbell, right?). Might be a good way to shoehorn all these outside backs like Grealy and Henry into the mix. Reckon he could shovel it out to your outside backs and look pretty good doing so.
 
C

Cancelled Account

Desmond Connor (43)
Drew said:
Totally understand, and from what I saw of him there he was serviceable but not spectacular. But at a push it might be worth a shot (it’s him or Jock Campbell, right?). Might be a good way to shoehorn all these outside backs like Grealy and Henry into the mix. Reckon he could shovel it out to your outside backs and look pretty good doing so.
Click to expand...
Stewart is worth a second go. He has nailed his defence, and just needs time to connect with his team in attack. Kicking will need some focus. Ticks more boxes that anyone else in the team.
 
TSR

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
Confucius Say said:
Best schoolboy tens in recent years have been:

Pasitoa (Brumbies Academy now Force)
Sam Walker (Roosters #6)
Gordons (both @ Rebels/Bulldogs)
Campbell Parata (NZ)
Noah Lolesio (Brumbies)

One of them should have been locked in.

Best 10 in Colts last year was Bas Ward. He’s not even in the Academy I don’t think.
Click to expand...
Two of them were locked in. COVID gave them a get out clause and they took it.

None of these guys would have got regular time in front of O’Connor (well, I can’t really comment on Walker as I don’t watch league - but wasn’t he always going to league?). Also worth noting that most of them weren’t better players in 2021 than Hegarty was. A couple of them have done nothing to suggest they would be better current options than Creighton. All left/never signed for better opportunity/more money and have had various levels of success at that.

Lucas WAS being given time to develop at 10 but used COVID as an opportunity to take a higher contract. There are various stories about what else may or may not have motivated him - but the fact is that he was being given opportunity to develop as a player and he decided his best option was elsewhere.

Lolesio has done fantastically well at the Brumbies but he wouldn’t have got those chances if he stayed at the Reds. He would’ve been playing mainly Prems. Given Pasitoa was playing behind Lolesio at the Brumbies, I’d assume he would’ve been further back in the pecking order.

Gordon, who looks like he has some good qualities and who I thought looked good last year, hasn’t been so good this year and needs more development from what I’ve seen. No way he would start regularly in front of O’Connor. Remember, he was under contract with the Reds and a guy who wasn’t his agent anymore shopped him anyway and he took the money/opportunity.

From everything I read about Parata he never wanted to do anything but go to NZ.

Over the last two years O’Connor has been the best performer 10 in Australian super rugby and he has the award last year and the test recognition to back that up. Fact is that the Reds have locked down the best domestic 10 in Australian super rugby but the trade off to that is that all the younger guys have sought greener pasture.

It is a bit concerning we are starting this week with a rookie 10. And it’s easy to say the Reds should have done better. But some of the views being expessed here are conveniently overlooking some of the actual fact, the very real impact of COVID and are taking a somewhat niave view of the player contracting/roster management process and the influence of the very high levels of ambition if young pro athletes - in my humble opinion.
 
dru

dru

Tim Horan (67)
Roberts Rugby said:
Stewart is worth a second go. He has nailed his defence, and just needs time to connect with his team in attack. Kicking will need some focus. Ticks more boxes that anyone else in the team.
Click to expand...

Yeah I love the guy, but he's still not my ideal 10. Though he's a lot closer now than just a few years ago. His D is one of those things, I just don't want my 10 shoving his head into rucks other than as a once in a game thing. And D is not big on my scale of what I want in a 10.

Stewart does a lot of stuff in the 10 role that is possibly world leading - in D. And that can transition very well to a great "second fly" but at 10 I want his head out of a forwards arse and up watching the game, the positions, the opportunities and the overlaps.

But yes, I'd give the bloke a second/third/fourth go - AND expect that he will perform admirably. Not bad to be sitting behind Creighton. Especially when we have Jock ready to step into first receiver. Look this could go great. It might not of course, but let me be hopeful.
 
C

Cancelled Account

Desmond Connor (43)
TSR said:
Two of them were locked in. COVID gave them a get out clause and they took it.

None of these guys would have got regular time in front of O’Connor (well, I can’t really comment on Walker as I don’t watch league - but wasn’t he always going to league?). Also worth noting that most of them weren’t better players in 2021 than Hegarty was. A couple of them have done nothing to suggest they would be better current options than Creighton. All left/never signed for better opportunity/more money and have had various levels of success at that.

Lucas WAS being given time to develop at 10 but used COVID as an opportunity to take a higher contract. There are various stories about what else may or may not have motivated him - but the fact is that he was being given opportunity to develop as a player and he decided his best option was elsewhere.

Lolesio has done fantastically well at the Brumbies but he wouldn’t have got those chances if he stayed at the Reds. He would’ve been playing mainly Prems. Given Pasitoa was playing behind Lolesio at the Brumbies, I’d assume he would’ve been further back in the pecking order.

Gordon, who looks like he has some good qualities and who I thought looked good last year, hasn’t been so good this year and needs more development from what I’ve seen. No way he would start regularly in front of O’Connor. Remember, he was under contract with the Reds and a guy who wasn’t his agent anymore shopped him anyway and he took the money/opportunity.

From everything I read about Parata he never wanted to do anything but go to NZ.

Over the last two years O’Connor has been the best performer 10 in Australian super rugby and he has the award last year and the test recognition to back that up. Fact is that the Reds have locked down the best domestic 10 in Australian super rugby but the trade off to that is that all the younger guys have sought greener pasture.

It is a bit concerning we are starting this week with a rookie 10. And it’s easy to say the Reds should have done better. But some of the views being expessed here are conveniently overlooking some of the actual fact, the very real impact of COVID and are taking a somewhat niave view of the player contracting/roster management process and the influence of the very high levels of ambition if young pro athletes - in my humble opinion.
Click to expand...
Get what your putting down TSR, it’s just disappointing who we had at our fingertips and now they are elsewhere. I don’t think Creighton has got what is takes and hope to be proven wrong, particularly when he would only be on the minimum deal. We need to cash to keep a few of the experienced boys.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TSR
Drew

Drew

Bob Davidson (42)
Roberts Rugby said:
Get what your putting down TSR, it’s just disappointing who we had at our fingertips and now they are elsewhere. I don’t think Creighton has got what is takes and hope to be proven wrong, particularly when he would only be on the minimum deal. We need to cash to keep a few of the experienced boys.
Click to expand...
Creighton might in time. He might on debut. But it seems a big ask on debut. I can’t say I’ve seen much of him play.
 
TSR

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
Yep - completely get the disappointment.

Unfortunately I doubt it is done for the year. I’ll be surprised if there aren’t at least 1-2 more departures.

But at least we are seeing a genuine pathway of guys coming into super rugby now to make their debuts around a bunch of experienced players who can help them out. Makes all the difference in the world.
 
TSR

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
One thing - I’m far more worried about how Asiata is going to go then Creighton. And that’s not a crack at Asiata. I just think his performance will be more influential.
 
TSR

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
Derpus said:
^^^
It is slightly fortuitous that JOC (James O'Connor) (James O'Connor) has come out as a decent 10. Didn't he originally come back playing at 13?
Click to expand...
That’s my understanding. And also that Lucas and Gordon signed their contracts with an expectation there was an opportunity at 10. My understanding is his conversion had a big influence on the decision of the other two.
 
C

Cancelled Account

Desmond Connor (43)
TSR said:
That’s my understanding. And also that Lucas and Gordon signed their contracts with an expectation there was an opportunity at 10. My understanding is his conversion had a big influence on the decision of the other two.
Click to expand...
Ironically he tried to get out of his contract with the Reds to play in NZ after the other two left. Not really a club man is he? He must have played for at least 6 or 7 clubs. He won’t be around after 2023, and that is what I’m looking at.
 
Derpus

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
TSR said:
That’s my understanding. And also that Lucas and Gordon signed their contracts with an expectation there was an opportunity at 10. My understanding is his conversion had a big influence on the decision of the other two.
Click to expand...
Makes sense.
 
TSR

TSR

Mark Ella (57)
Plenty of players will move between now and then. We’ll have a much better idea on guys like Creighton, Annan & Lynagh. Also if Campbell has a future in 10. If O’Connor does move on we can start shopping next year.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top