Reds 2023

[LeCheese]

Cordingley probably needs to take some heat for the fact our backup flyhalf is a centre who has played a couple of super games off the bench on the wing.

Although he’s been used as a utility back, Creighton’s favoured position is flyhalf, and he was recruited as such.

 

[dru]

Come on now… the games haven’t been lost at flyhalf. They’ve been lost in the forwards and set piece, the inability to get good field position and build pressure.

Reds are missing 4 props and 2 hookers, shit the two reserve props (Anae and Fa’agase) only joined the team in the past fortnight.

That been said Zander and Fotuaika haven’t improved in 18months, if we’re going to complain about squad management and Coringley, then my issue is with the front-row and Crapper.

Adam, explain it to me. Our forwards are certainly not performing as well with the injuries. The stats to the last game give us 4/6 scrums compared to Hilanders 3/4. Those losses hurt but two turnovers doesn't turn a game. The line out, surprisingly gives us 15/16 against the Hilanders 10/11. Personally I think our line out is shite, but again those stats don't turn a game.

Our rucks were 86/89 v 86/89. Again not in itself a game turner.

I'm not at all blaming the fly half, but the whole team looked listless and without direction.

It does seem like game strategy to me. Or execution maybe.

 

[PhilClinton]

At the end of the day it’s a funding issue, as in lack thereof, which is an Australia wide problem.

The Reds have most of their cap tied up in Taniela and JOC (James O'Connor). In Tupou’s case, he’s been pretty good injury wise, which has mean a distinct lack of need for a cracking backup tighthead, so why spend any money recruiting one when you need those dollars elsewhere?

The flyhalf story is a bit different, again though, JOC (James O'Connor) had been solid and not so injury prone when the Reds gave him his current deal, he was also essentially the first choice Wallaby flyhalf and would go on to win Super Rugby player of the year in 2021. When you’ve got someone with all of those credentials at 10, you’re not going to be able to afford a gun backup nor would one want to play second fiddle for a season. But I still think they needed someone with experience to bridge the gap between JOC (James O'Connor) and Lynagh. They’ve left themselves too exposed for a season or two longer.

 

[Adam84]

Adam, explain it to me. Our forwards are certainly not performing as well with the injuries. The stats to the last game give us 4/6 scrums compared to Hilanders 3/4. Those losses hurt but two turnovers doesn't turn a game. The line out, surprisingly gives us 15/16 against the Hilanders 10/11. Personally I think our line out is shite, but again those stats don't turn a game.

Our rucks were 86/89 v 86/89. Again not in itself a game turner.

I wasn’t just referring to the highlanders game, in either case stats need to be taken with a grain of salt.

What those scrum stats don’t show is the number of times a penalty was forced by the opposition at scrum, or whether the lineout ball was clean/long/short.

Reds scrum has been penalised 12-14 times over the past 3 games, it piggy packs the opposition up the field and relieves any pressure applied.

Also the lineout is meh, majority go to either 2 or 4 jumper and almost always brought down because they can’t seem to get it clean off the top. These are safe but do nothing for an attacking platform. By bringing it down It allows the defensive backline to move up, and by throwing short it leaves the defenders free at the back of the line-out to sweep across.

To provide the best platform for the backs to the attack, you want to send it to the rear pod and straight off the top, i don’t think I’ve seen the Reds manage any of these past few games.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Come on now… the games haven’t been lost at flyhalf. They’ve been lost in the forwards and set piece, the inability to get good field position and build pressure.

Contradictory statements really. Surely the poor kicking out of hand from the 10 has been a major factor in the field position battle.

 

[Dan54]

Thing that disappoints me with the Reds is the seemingly chase for young talent and not keeping them when they develop. I have said often , that I used to be at almost all Reds games up until 2020, and was sure there was going to be more pay for the young fellas Thorn bought through in his first couple of years. But somehow it probably hasn't come off, and already experienced player seem to of been let go, can't remember their names, but the 2 Saffa props (brothers) etc. I not sure but just seems for some reason players seem to be drifting off, and I sure it just not money. Since moving back to NZ haven't really heard much as to why.

 

[Adam84]

Contradictory statements really. Surely the poor kicking out of hand from the 10 has been a major factor in the field position battle.

Not contradictory at all, I think the kicking from the flyhalf has been less an issue then the scrum penalties they’ve received the last 2 weeks. especially last week.

 

[LeCheese]

Thing that disappoints me with the Reds is the seemingly chase for young talent and not keeping them when they develop. I have said often , that I used to be at almost all Reds games up until 2020, and was sure there was going to be more pay for the young fellas Thorn bought through in his first couple of years. But somehow it probably hasn't come off, and already experienced player seem to of been let go, can't remember their names, but the 2 Saffa props (brothers) etc. I not sure but just seems for some reason players seem to be drifting off, and I sure it just not money. Since moving back to NZ haven't really heard much as to why.

I mean, considering the number of talents that have come up through the Reds in recent years, they've done a great job of retention in my eyes - you simply can't keep them all. Who are you referring to specifically? Kerevi, Rodda, Gordon, Lucas are probably the most notable losses, which were seemingly no fault of the Reds. Am I missing anyone?

From memory, I believe the Smith brothers left on good terms, and on their own terms.

 

[TSR]

Not contradictory at all, I think the kicking from the flyhalf has been less an issue then the scrum penalties they’ve received the last 2 weeks. especially last week.

I’d also put kicking behind our execution in the A zone.

Against the Chiefs in particular I thought we generated the field position we were looking for with our kicking game. We were too ineffective with the chances we got though.

 

[Dan54]

I mean, considering the number of talents that have come up through the Reds in recent years, they've done a great job of retention in my eyes - you simply can't keep them all. Who are you referring to specifically? Kerevi, Rodda, Gordon, Lucas are probably the most notable losses, which were seemingly no fault of the Reds. Am I missing anyone?

From memory, I believe the Smith brothers left on good terms, and on their own terms.

Yep wasn't suggesting otherwise, just wondered if maybe a few experienced heads can be worthwhile making a bit of an effort to keep.

 

[LeCheese]

Yep wasn't suggesting otherwise, just wondered if maybe a few experienced heads can be worthwhile making a bit of an effort to keep.

Sure, but your original comment was largely about not keeping young players once they had matured, whereas I think the opposite has been the case. I'm curious which players you're referring to?

I may have forgotten some, but the majority of young players who have come in under Thorn's tenure are still around and have developed into core members of the squad, with many also being in contention for the Wallabies squad - the likes of Wilson, McReight, McDermott, Campbell, Petaia, even extending to ASY (Angus Scott-Young), Blyth, Wright, Paisami, Stewart, etc.

When it comes to older heads in the squad, it's of course a difficult balance to strike, as you run the risk of ending up with another post-2011 scenario. In Thorn's first few season, when a lot of the young guys above came in, we had the likes of Slipper, Hegarty, Smith twins, Higginbotham, even George Smith around to be those experienced heads. One of the great things about getting guys in young is that they develop experience and maturity at an earlier point in their careers - I think many of the core squad members have been around for long enough now that the experienced heads in the twilight of their careers aren't as much of a necessity.

 

[RugbyM]

@LearningCurve creighton has played I think all but one game for the Reds this year.

As for the talk of Ballymore, the funding they have now covers a high performance centre that also basically replicates the McLean Stand - so about 1200. No northern stand and no access upstairs in the eastern stand plus basically no facilities over there (toilets or catering) means it’s a no go for super rugby until perhaps some Olympic funding comes in to replace the eastern stand.

The new McLean Stand's going to have about 3000 capacity - 2600 in the seats and another 400 or so in the corporate boxes behind. Toilets are built in under the stand like the old one and food and beer will be bumped in (food trucks and lots of little bars rather than one big one where you get stuck in a queue).

 

[Dan54]

Sure, but your original comment was largely about not keeping young players once they had matured, whereas I think the opposite has been the case. I'm curious which players you're referring to?

I may have forgotten some, but the majority of young players who have come in under Thorn's tenure are still around and have developed into core members of the squad, with many also being in contention for the Wallabies squad - the likes of Wilson, McReight, McDermott, Campbell, Petaia, even extending to ASY (Angus Scott-Young) (Angus Scott-Young), Blyth, Wright, Paisami, Stewart, etc.

When it comes to older heads in the squad, it's of course a difficult balance to strike, as you run the risk of ending up with another post-2011 scenario. In Thorn's first few season, when a lot of the young guys above came in, we had the likes of Slipper, Hegarty, Smith twins, Higginbotham, even George Smith around to be those experienced heads. One of the great things about getting guys in young is that they develop experience and maturity at an earlier point in their careers - I think many of the core squad members have been around for long enough now that the experienced heads in the twilight of their careers aren't as much of a necessity.

Yep fair enough, I just thought they would develop more than they have, and seem and we saw the likes of (and not because of anyones fault or arguments etc) the Fainga'a boys, Ready, Frisby and obviously Gill etc who some other who may have help with experience to guide the young uns. We have seen that losing JOC (James O'Connor) seems to of upset the backline a fair bit, and maybe a few other experienced heads may of been some help. Look I know it hard to keep everyone, but rightly or wrongly have thought maybe there has been more of an effort to gran=b young fellas. It maybe financial etc etc, just wonder if that's what they miss a bit.

 

[Ignoto]

I'm struggling to think in the last several years who the Reds have lost that would have an impact in the way you're wanting Dan.

BPA and Bryce are really the only two that come to mind that would actively help in the situation were currently in. But both went overseas for a pay day to look after their families.

Chiba Hanson would also have been great to have gotten back.

Outside of those three, Lucas and the Gordon brothers are the two that have really had an impact on our depth ie both were meant to be our long term fly half option.

otherwise I'm scratching my head on who else.

 

[PhilClinton]

I'm struggling to think in the last several years who the Reds have lost that would have an impact in the way you're wanting Dan.

BPA and Bryce are really the only two that come to mind that would actively help in the situation were currently in. But both went overseas for a pay day to look after their families.

Even BPA was probably expendable - Mafi was playing himself into Wallabies contention over the last few years before being so injury prone, Nasser has been quite good, Faessler and Asiata aren't slouches.

The big one (and I admit my Ashgrove GPS coloured glasses are on) is Bryce, he isn't old by any means, has a gun boot, goal kicker and is a very capable leader and runner of the game plan.

I'm a broken record on this, but in an ideal world Lynagh gets a two year development contract whilst he's playing UQ Colts and 1st grade, and they use that bit of extra cash to keep Bryce until 2024.

 

[The Phoenix]

The new McLean Stand's going to have about 3000 capacity - 2600 in the seats and another 400 or so in the corporate boxes behind. Toilets are built in under the stand like the old one and food and beer will be bumped in (food trucks and lots of little bars rather than one big one where you get stuck in a queue).

That's a shame - I miss the days of being stuck in the queue at the Bob Burnett Bar and listening to the hill go off as Queensland or the Wallabies scored.
I do hope they bring back the beer sellers with portable kegs on their backs.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Even BPA was probably expendable - Mafi was playing himself into Wallabies contention over the last few years before being so injury prone, Nasser has been quite good, Faessler and Asiata aren't slouches.

The big one (and I admit my Ashgrove GPS coloured glasses are on) is Bryce, he isn't old by any means, has a gun boot, goal kicker and is a very capable leader and runner of the game plan.

I'm a broken record on this, but in an ideal world Lynagh gets a two year development contract whilst he's playing UQ Colts and 1st grade, and they use that bit of extra cash to keep Bryce until 2024.

In that "ideal" world Lynagh stays in London mate

 

[Sully]

Shocking news! The team who have lost key players to injury all season are losing games. Who'd have thought?

 

[RugbyM]

That's a shame - I miss the days of being stuck in the queue at the Bob Burnett Bar and listening to the hill go off as Queensland or the Wallabies scored.
I do hope they bring back the beer sellers with portable kegs on their backs.

Kegs on legs and $5 rumbos!
What could possibly go wrong?

 

[RugbyReg]

Queensland Rugby pathway products Richie Asiata and Zane Nonggorr have re-signed with the Queensland Reds through 2024.