Rugby Championship 2012: Our Backline

[Athilnaur]

With the RC getting close and some key back line players expected to be fit, and a bit of chat about it in the Wales game threads I thought a Rugby championship discussion was timely.

So I'll start with a controversial back line to get the ball rolling:

9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. McCabe
13. JOC (James O'Connor)
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15. Beale

21. White (Phipps)
22. Barnes (Mitchell/Horne)

 

[RugbyReg]

we need more backline discussion threads!

 

[Braveheart81]

If we win the third test against Wales and everyone is fit at the start of the Rugby Championship, I think Cooper will struggle to make the team and JOC (James O'Connor) might make his way back in via the bench.

I think having Cooper at 10 and then defending at fullback causes us to lose too much from Beale.

I think there is the real potential that Beale could end up at 10 and Barnes on the bench (AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) at fullback, JOC (James O'Connor) on the wing), or Barnes could stay at 10 and Beale at 15. JOC (James O'Connor) and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) to fill the wing and the bench spot.

 

[Lindommer]

JOC (James O'Connor) at 13? Not on my watch. Brave'n'all he might be but the Saffers and ABs will simply line up their big boppers and run at him all day. In the modern game size is important for outside centres. Leave him on the wing with a roving commission. Or, better still, on the bench.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I couldn't see JOC (James O'Connor) playing outside centre, as I reckon you need at least one midfielder with a bit of size about them. OC is usually that position these days.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

I couldn't see JOC (James O'Connor) playing outside centre, as I reckon you need at least one midfielder with a bit of size about them. OC is usually that position these days.

Should be fine with McCabe at 12, NZ work with Smith at 13 and he's no giant.

 

[qwerty51]

Looks like JOC (James O'Connor) is good to go

It's been a long 8 weeks but great to finally get the all clear. My Liver is gd to go Now the fun part- joining the boys back on the feild

 

[Schadenfreude]

No discussion that Cooper could play fullback?

 

[Braveheart81]

I think Cooper is fairly week under the high ball. I think AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and KB (Kurtley Beale) are easily our two best exponents under the high ball and one of them should play fullback.

I think Bernard Foley is probably a better option at 15 than Cooper due to his ability to catch the high ball.

 

[TOCC]

9. Lucas
10. Cooper
11. Shepherd
12. Ioane
13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Barnes
15. McCabe

 

[Athilnaur]

For myself JOC (James O'Connor) is someone you play for 80, he ignites games. I'd try him at 13 because while he doesn't have the size for dominant tackling in the 12 channel that is a factor in the modern game, in open space he's a superb tackler.

Add the playmaking ability one out from our 10 and our attack is boosted. We lose some midfield defensive edge but not much.

Cooper at 10 because his long pass and read of the game is superb. The only player who can bring us what Cooper does is Beale, but why move the best fullback in rugby to 10?


Ath.

 

[Braveheart81]

I hated playing Cooper at fullback in defence and moving Beale to the wing in 2011 because it severely limited the impact of arguably our best player from 2010.

This is the reason why I'd either play Beale at 10 or play Beale at 15 and not play Cooper at 10. For everything Cooper adds when he is in the side, I think we need to consider how much we lose if we make Kurtley Beale defend on the wing.

Finding good balance in the backline is a difficult thing. I don't know that a backline that contains all the three amigos is our best backline.

The only two obvious picks for me are Genia at 9 and Ioane at 11.

If you consider we have the following potential players in each position:

10. Beale, Cooper, O'Connor, Barnes (and Lealiifano in 2013)

12. Barnes, McCabe, O'Connor, Fainga'a

13. McCabe, O'Connor, Horne, Fainga'a, Ashley-Cooper

14. Ashley-Cooper, McCabe, O'Connor, Tomane (let's assume Mitchell isn't a contender for 2012 and Vuna won't play for the Wallabies again this season particularly as more players become available).

15. Beale, Ashley-Cooper, Cooper, O'Connor

From these options, we have the current backline (for this Saturday):

Genia, Ioane, Barnes, McCabe, Horne, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Beale

Lots of people would like to see McCabe trialled at 13 and make into Morty Mk II. That backline could be:

Genia, Ioane, Barnes, O'Connor, McCabe, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Beale

If you're going to pick Cooper at 10, I think you want McCabe at 12 rather than Barnes or O'Connor. Given the form of Barnes in the last few tests and KB (Kurtley Beale)'s form at 10 in Super Rugby, I think it will be hard for Cooper to get a run at 10 in the Rugby Championship unless he has a blinding finish to the season for the Reds.

Personally, I'd like to see this backline given a crack.

Genia, Beale, Ioane, Barnes, McCabe, O'Connor, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

I think Beale is the most talented all round back that we have and the best sides in the world have their best player at 10. Having Barnes at 12 provides a genuine second five option who is also a strong defender. McCabe for crash ball and strong defence at 13. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has been really solid at fullback, is strong under the high ball and a good defender.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

Wouldn't mind seeing JOC (James O'Connor) at 13 or 15. Beale should be given a go in the gold #10. Cooper can be a super-sub to start with and will surely come back into the starting team if injuries arise.

 

[Behold]

I don't get everyone wanting Beale at 10, I watched him play for the Rebels when he had 10 on his back and he played like a fullback. He was hardly ever at first receiver in Beale's first game at 10 Kingi was always inside him. When Kingi was injured Lachlan Mitchell was playing a lot of first receiver and Beale was one in from the wing a lot of the time. Beale is a follow me type player he runs to the line and looks for offloads. He still favours one side when he passes and his pass back the other way is weak. Yes he runs the ball and we all love to see it, and gets people out of their chairs but he isn't a 10. He doesn't have enough control of those around him, individually brilliant, a great fullback but in no way is he a test 10. Would he win man of the match playing at 10 sure every game but the team would suffer and it is a team sport. I don't think he is tactically there yet either.

On the rest of the back line if we want a little man at 13 it shouldn't be JOC (James O'Connor). It should be Tapuai, he is the best proper centre in super rugby available for the Wallabies. With L'fano out for the rest of year (the man I would have had at 10 for these matches even if everyone was available) I think the Wallabies should persist with Barnes. Beale will give him more options, JOC (James O'Connor) will give him more options when they are both back in the team, in terms of attack. I don't think we should be so eager to welcome back QC (Quade Cooper) after his poor world cup and limited super rugby time. I would continue with the McCabe experiment a while longer. Until we have a L'fano or an inform brain explosion less QC (Quade Cooper) back in the team, then I would move Barnes to 12.

For the RC - 9. Genia 10. Barnes 11. Ioane 12. McCabe 13. Tapuai 14. JOC (James O'Connor) 15. Beale 20. White 21. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 22. Tomane

Preferred team if everyone was fit - 9. Genia 10. L'fano 11. Ioane 12. Barnes 13. Tapuai 14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 15. Beale 20. White 21. JOC (James O'Connor) 22. Tomane.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Should be fine with McCabe at 12, NZ work with Smith at 13 and he's no giant.

Certainly no giant, but the All Blacks site has him listed as 1.86m and 95kg. JOC (James O'Connor) is listed as 1.80m and 88kg, which would make him fairly small by international 13 standards.

I've said before that it's good to have a distributor and a crasher in the centres and the numbers they wear on their backs aren't hugely important. With that in mind you could make a case for McCabe and JOC (James O'Connor), but I reckon JOC (James O'Connor) does more damage the closer he is to the ruck. Outside centre is also (IMHO) the most difficult position defensively and one where it's very easy to get caught out. JOC (James O'Connor) to the best of my knowledge has no experience there and Smith routinely puts on a defensive clinic.

If we were to play McCabe and JOC (James O'Connor) (and I think that is a possibility), then I'd swap them around.

 

[Bowside]

First choice backline:

9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. JOC (James O'Connor)
13. McCabe/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14. Shmoo
15. Beale

20. White
21. Barnes/Lealiifano
22. McCabe/AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

It would be a thing of beauty. Imagine what they could do off the set piece.

 

[Richo]

Don't think Mitchell will -- or should -- play test rugby this year.

 

[Bardon]

Looks like JOC (James O'Connor) is good to go

It's been a long 8 weeks but great to finally get the all clear. My Liver is gd to go Now the fun part- joining the boys back on the feild

I bet as soon as he read that Cooper posted on JOC (James O'Connor)'s FB wall suggesting they go out on the lash and put his liver through it's paces.

 

[Bardon]

One of the big problems in picking an Aus backline is that you have so many good players who don't have a permanent home in the backline. If AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and JOC (James O'Connor) moved around from position to position so much in the "real world" then they'd be the kind of guys who've tried their hands at a whole bunch of jobs from Antarctic fisherman to office work in Sydney, via a spell on a sheep ranch. But never spent more than a few months at any of them and cause their parents to have sleepless nights wondering when they would finally settle down and get a real job.

Now that Beale has shown how excellent he can be at 10 at super rugby level he's set to join the wanderers. At least he's had some experience thanks to Cooper's defensive frailties forcing them to switch positions on defence and then back again on attack.

This kind of switching around wouldn't be such a problem if the Aus backline was firing the way backlines of previous generation did. When a backline really gels and clicks then position almost becomes irrelevant as wingers come off their wing to attack the 10 channel, centres will pop up on the wing and whoever is available will cover the FB when he's gone up field on a run or chasing a kick. They develop a sort of hive mind and instinctively know where to be to support the guy with the ball.

With the current crop it's either an individual break from Cooper, Diggers, Beale or JOC (James O'Connor) that gets them in behind the opposition and then if someone is running support off them there's a good chance of a try. Other than that it tends to be first phase set moves from scrum or lineout and it's quality players executing very well. But I rarely get that sense of the old Aus teams who could create holes in your defence through their intricate interplay.

The one player that I've see in gold who's made this backline truely sing on occasions is Berrick Barnes. But if you were to pick all the best backs in Aus and cram them into the team he'll struggle to make the bench. I've seen enough of him both in gold and for the Tahs to know how good and how bad he can be. Sometimes he's so conservative and kick happy it's infuriating, doubly so because you know he's capable of so much more. It's like an A student cruising along just doing the bare minimum to scrape a pass.

Barnes and Cooper are polar opposites. Barnes is naturally conservative and needs to be encouraged to take more risks. Cooper on the other hand is all about taking risks. But while Barnes can be encouraging to be a bit more adventurous you can't really tell Cooper to tone it down. He's unpredictability is his biggest edge. You can't really tell him to take less risks as no one knows which bullet long pass out wide will lead to a break or an intercept under your own posts or which break from his own 22 will end in a length of the field try or a penalty in front of your own posts for holding on.

Aus coaches and selectors in recent years have a tendency of first picking all the best available backs to be in the team and then deciding who will play where. The main losers in this shuffle is generally the Other winger and one of the centres. It's hard to see something like that happening in NZ or most other tier 1 test nations for that matter. There is often some shuffling when injury calls for it, but when everyone is fit FBs are considered for the FB spot and wingers for the wing etc. Those not selected in their normal position are generally not considered for other roles unless there's a dirge of talent in a particular position.

Whatever backline Aus go with for the Rugby Championship I just hope there's some degree of consistency in it so that these players can truly gel as a unit. Once that happens that it wont really matter too much who plays where, within reason.

 

[cyclopath]

I really think we gain more from Beale being at 15 than anywhere else. He can come in to first receiver at times in attack. Otherwise, in all honesty, I wouldn't change the backline significantly. JOC (James O'Connor) on the bench for me at the moment.