Rugby World Cup (For Clubs)

[macg101]

hey folks,

Just wondering if there has been or is there any plans to create a world cup for clubs or something of that order!

Say for example the 4 semi finalists of the HC play the 4 top super 14 teams, I'd say it would make for interesting viewing and I would imagine that for once the NH teams might be more competitive in this format..

What are your views on this, slap on the back on the back if you can come up with an interesting name for the tourny..

 

[TOCC]

ideas like this have been looked at, logistically its near impossible to have both teams at full strength.. the rugby calender doesnt have room for such a event

 

[Reddy!]

"Super 10-man Rugby"

 

[qwerty51]

Champions League is a better word.

 

[farva]

ideas like this have been looked at, logistically its near impossible to have both teams at full strength.. the rugby calender doesnt have room for such a event

I know people say that, but up until this new super format, the H Cup finished a few weeks prior to the Super final. All teams would have had a chance to get their teams into form over the course of their respective tournaments.

If the IRB put a decent purse up for grabs to entice teams to play their best teams, and then rotated the location of the tournament - once in Europe, once in SANZAR - then there would be some decent crowds. Have it as a knock out tournament perhaps with NH teams against SH teams in the first round and have it over 2 weeks say.

The best time to have it would be immediately before the international window in June.

Imagine having the likes of Munster, Lienster, Leceister and Toulouse taking on the Bulls, Crusaders, Stormers and Waratahs.

 

[macg101]

if my facts are up to scratch the final dates of all comps are

Magners League - 1st week in June
Premiership - End of May
Top 14 - End of May
Super 15 - Start of July?

so probably a 5 week difference?.. might be a bit of a stretch maybe. Would love to see it happen though.. I wouldn't mind seeing the NH teams take a January Break for 3 weeks say and end towards the end of june, which would align the leagues...

ha "ten man rugby", thankfully the HC is getting a bit better than that as a spectacle! Nothing wrong with a nice tight game a times!

 

[TOCC]

I know people say that, but up until this new super format, the H Cup finished a few weeks prior to the Super final. All teams would have had a chance to get their teams into form over the course of their respective tournaments.

If the IRB put a decent purse up for grabs to entice teams to play their best teams, and then rotated the location of the tournament - once in Europe, once in SANZAR - then there would be some decent crowds. Have it as a knock out tournament perhaps with NH teams against SH teams in the first round and have it over 2 weeks say.

The best time to have it would be immediately before the international window in June.

Imagine having the likes of Munster, Lienster, Leceister and Toulouse taking on the Bulls, Crusaders, Stormers and Waratahs.

There is no gap before the June internationals, in 2011 the Wallabies are playing the weekend after the SuperRugby GF, in 2012 the June Internationals are actually in the middle of the SuperRugby season..once again, no room there. Any such tournament would come at the expense of international matches.

 

[Joe Mac]

it would be a fantastic spectacle but it seems logistically impossible.

I strongly doubt any of NH teams would stand a chance against the top in form SH teams, unless the game was played in the deep NH winter. Crusaders team this year may as well be the All Blacks.

 

[120kg Winger]

Nice idea except the vested interests of owners and respective unions will never allow the administrators to remove their heads from their collective *****. This is one of the most globalised sports yet everyone is looking only at their own back yard.

Create a global season with players free to play wherever they want.

Starting from the top

October/November – World Cup
In off years encourage Tier one nations to tour lower ranked nations. Scores may be lopsided but minnows will improve for the regular exposure to great teams and fan base can be improved.

It is here that you could slot the “Club World Cup” every 2 years after the Rugby World Cup”

December/January –
15-a-side Players Rest
Fixed weekly international 7-a-side competition

February - May
NH - Club Championship
SH – Super Rugby

June - July
NH – 6 Nations
SH – 4 Nations

August – September
International Season

This will make Rugby a consistent all year game. Players can move comfortably between competitions without interfering with potential international selection. Moving NH rugby to summer will free them from competing directly with English Premier League.

“It’s too hot”… actually London and Paris summer averages are only a little higher than Sydney’s winter ones. Italy is the only nation where it could be difficult but night games would create a lower match time temperature.

Here are a number of positive reasons for this:
Professional clubs will always have their players available. National sides will always have their players available. (Bringing back the primacy of international rugby) There’s a specific and separate focus on 7-a-side. Lower tier nations benefit from exposure every year, not just at World Cups. Grassroots competitions can have their non-internationals playing for longer. Freedom of player movement would create a better market and greater opportunity for younger players…and my favourite; the consistency across all competitions and player freedom means that administrators will have actually work to make their competition the most attractive to players and fans or the money will go elsewhere.

 

[TOCC]

NH wont alter there season for the benefit of the SH.... never ever ever

 

[Joe Mac]

120kg- That would kill the SH competition because all our players would be doing so in Europe

 

[macg101]

There is no gap before the June internationals, in 2011 the Wallabies are playing the weekend after the SuperRugby GF, in 2012 the June Internationals are actually in the middle of the SuperRugby season..once again, no room there. Any such tournament would come at the expense of international matches.

Almost certainly, i seen no reason why you couldn't fit a once off hc winner v super 15 winner fixture though (smaller concept than my original thought obviously!.. mighty packed schedule though aint it?

I think there is a point about converging the hemispheres timetables a bit though... winter rugby is probably doing the NH no favours in terms of style and competitiveness in the rwc and internationals, were just not used to playing in good conditions!

 

[macg101]

it would be a fantastic spectacle but it seems logistically impossible.

I strongly doubt any of NH teams would stand a chance against the top in form SH teams, unless the game was played in the deep NH winter. Crusaders team this year may as well be the All Blacks.

I would give them a good shot.. far more organised than their international counterparts... we prob play too much of our competitive rugby in the depths of winter to be fair which makes teams less able to deals with hotter climates and playing styles which suit such an environment. One part of the various reasons why the SH is dominant.

just a quick google search to illustrate a point here.. look at playing numbers (roughly) in 2003 "The Complete Guide to Rugby Union" (2003),

126,729 Australia
634,460 England
252,638 France
115,000 Ireland
133,400 New Zealand
165,400 Scotland
361,302 South Africa
159,900 Wales ....emo

Hence the playing numbers are actually significanlty higher in europe, hence europe should be more competitive but it isn't, obviously this is a point most likely made in this and many forums

 

[120kg Winger]

TOCC - You're right that the NH "powers" would be unlikely to want change, however the move would allow:
Consistent availability of all players
Better crowds as weather is nicer for going to stadiums
Less competition from Premier League Football
Uninterupted International season
More Money

Explain to them what they are giving up and show them that they just can't lose.

Joe Mac - Despite the money being thown about, the clubs can't afford all the SH stars. Plus it can only be beneficial to junior development if these guys have somewhere to ply their trade until they're good enough for international rugby.

Unlike League or Aussie Rules juniors who can only get so much exposure; talented rugby players can develop and earn long before they're ready to play Internationals, while still being eligible should their form warrant it. Rather than drawing on just 5 super teams all of a sudden you have NZ, Europe and South Africa as well. Super teams are not limited to looking at (lets face it, the Sydney and Brisbane comps) limited player pools. The only limitation on contracts is you play your club rugby where you play your Super Rugby. Hence improving the depth and experience of Australian Rugby more broadly.

It will probably never happen, which is more the pity. It is evidence though that the good of the game is not always paramount in the Adminstrator's thinking.

 

[Ash]

If I remember correctly, there's issues with those playing numbers as some countries included high school players, juniors, anyone that remotely played some kind of rugby, etc and others didn't.

 

[macg101]

If I remember correctly, there's issues with those playing numbers as some countries included high school players, juniors, anyone that remotely played some kind of rugby, etc and others didn't.

hence not worth s***! oh well back to the drawing board! I would have thought NZ playing numbers are much higher relative to other nations than the stats above suggest...

is there anywhere we can get # of pro/ semi prof's registered?

 

[Mr Tank]

Interestingly enough this morning I was told Sunnybank is being approached to help fund a report into the feasibility of world club championship 7s to be held in Beijing. It's being pushed by a prominent member of the Chinese-Australian community and has some support in Beijing. I think there is a first meeting occurring tomorrow, I will pass on any details if I can.

Bear in mind though that this is literally the first step of what would potentially be a sizeable process.

 

[macg101]

Interestingly enough this morning I was told Sunnybank is being approached to help fund a report into the feasibility of world club championship 7s to be held in Beijing. It's being pushed by a prominent member of the Chinese-Australian community and has some support in Beijing. I think there is a first meeting occurring tomorrow, I will pass on any details if I can.

Bear in mind though that this is literally the first step of what would potentially be a sizeable process.

sounds good let us know if you find anything out